5e Magus Class Conversion

[Gruzjmal]

Spell resistance should be limited to tier 3 or higher at the minimum. Paladins get it sooner because they don't really have all that much else going for them.

Haha! That's funny. Paladins are amazing in 5e.

Does the class fair well as-is without its archetypes? If yes, then it's too strong. This class will be much better if you start moving class features into archetypes. That way, the Archetypes can be stronger without unbalancing the class.

There may be some truth to that, but I'd like to hear some logical evidence to back up why you think the base class is too powerful. Sorry, but "it just doesn't sit well with me" isn't a very convincing argument.

http://www.enworld.org/forum/conten...Vin-Diesel-s-WITCH-HUNTER-Class!#.VibDpxHBzGf
Go and read this. It is, by far, the most balanced, interesting, and innovative homebrew I've ever seen. It might give you a better frame of reference.

I would agree that this class seems pretty well balanced and is somewhat unique in flavor, which is very cool. I'm also a fan of Vin Diesel.

 

[transcendantviewer]

The thing about 5e is that you can't always explain why something is or is not balanced; you have to get a feel for it. There's no procedure to creating stuff, just rules of thumb. For instance, a good rule of thumb is to ask yourself "Does this homebrew do something that something else already does? If so, does it simplify the process or do it better?" Your subclasses feel almost... Superfluous, compared to what the base class already gets. Like the abilities are stretched and skewed for the sake of variation, not mechanical usefulness. And the ones that are useful feel too powerful because the class already has a whole host of good things going for itself, they make it too much.

 

[Gruzjmal]

Your subclasses feel almost... Superfluous, compared to what the base class already gets. Like the abilities are stretched and skewed for the sake of variation, not mechanical usefulness. And the ones that are useful feel too powerful because the class already has a whole host of good things going for itself, they make it too much.

Okay, I think I see what you are getting at. This is something I've been having trouble with while designing this class. I think what it likely comes down to is that I am trying to stay too true to the feel of the original magus class. What would probably be a better approach to make the class more balanced and have more of a 5e feel, would be to make the base class more of a general wizard/fighter and have one of the subclasses feel more like the magus/duskblade. I have been thinking that maybe I should try that approach, but I think I got a little too caught up in making the class a magus since that is what I originally named the class. Anyway, perhaps I will reconsider my approach to the main class and subclasses. When I previously considered abandoning magus as the primary class (although I might still use that name for lack of a better one), I was thinking I would have the subclasses be based on the bladesinger, duskblade, and arcane archer classes. I think that would probably be a decent place to start. Any thoughts?

 

[transcendantviewer]

Try pulling one or two abilities from the base class and moving them into the subclasses, then just expanding upon one of the abilities already present in the class features. See if that works.

 

[Gruzjmal]

Hmmm. On second thought, I'm thinking I had a better balance with a much earlier version of the class. Perhaps just making some of the base class abilities less powerful would allow me to play around with the archetypes a bit more. I might consider tweaking the levels at which archetype abilities are gained too (before it was 7th, 14th, and 18th, or something like that). Anyway, I will consider what you said about making the base class a little less powerful in favor of giving the archetypes more variation and interesting abilities.

Thanks for the feedback and for articulating yourself a little more clearly so I could understand what was bugging you about the class.

 

[Gruzjmal]

Try pulling one or two abilities from the base class and moving them into the subclasses, then just expanding upon one of the abilities already present in the class features. See if that works.

Do you mean expand on one of the abilities already present in the base class in the base class, or expanding on it in one of the archetypes? I was thinking about making spell combat weaker and expanding on that with one of the archetypes ...

I was also toying with the idea of having spellstrike be a base class feature and expanding on that in different ways with the subclasses ... like having hexblade (spellstrikes can cause effects like confusion or bestow curse), necroblade (spellstrikes can add necromancy spells), and spellbreaker (spellstrikes can add dispel magic) subclasses. I think if I make spell combat less powerful, that could work well ... I could even do both, expand on spell combat with one archetype and expand on spellstrike with the others.

 

[transcendantviewer]

Take one class ability that's core to the class, water it down slightly, and construct an archetype that makes it better slowly over time. Then make an archetype that feels completely different from the base class, like takes it in a completely different way. Then make a third archetype that is sort of the generalist, makes them better with a few small abilities. That's pretty much the recipe for success.

 

[transcendantviewer]

Basically, when in doubt, use the precedents. Do you want them to feel more like a caster with a sword? Look at the Pact Of The Blade for the Warlock for inspiration. If you want them to feel more like someone that blends their swordplay with interwoven magic, look at the Eldritch Knight. But, I'll say this: Don't give a class a feat for free unless it's weakened somehow. I made a Barbarian Archetype that got the benefits of the Tough feat at 6th level, but, it's tied to Barbarian Level, not character level.

 

[Gruzjmal]

I just made several updates to the class (see the Updates post for details). I think these updates definitely add more depth to the subclasses. I also added the Necroblade subclass, inspired by the 3.5e class.

As always, I'm open to feedback and would like to know what people think as far as how balanced the class is compared to other classes, or whether they would consider running/allowing this in a campaign. If people are playing with this class, please let me know. I'd love to hear your thoughts and opinions about it.

This is probably the last update I will post for a while unless I get some good feedback.

Thanks for your input.

 

[Gruzjmal]

I just made another big update ... Has anyone tried playing with this class yet? I'm still looking for feedback.