D&D 5E 5e Updates: Monstrous Compendium

dave2008

Legend
I personally don't like that (I mean you already list it in the at-will spell section, and why would I ever use that over 3 attacks?). Also with retributive casting, I would never use that over hypnotic pattern unless the thing was a golem or something....so to imply that is the default choice I think is undercutting the power of the creature.
I think I didn't explain it well. I'm not trying to suggest poison spray as a default for the reaction. Any at will spell is viable for the reaction. I was trying to simply point out that it is not intended to replace the multiattack action. It is in the actions because that is the new standard (to have a spell described). I could have chosen any spell, I just chose the one that inflicts the most damage as required by the DPR guidelines in the DMG.

Also, it doesn't compete with the multiattack either because the aboleth's most powerful option is to cast spells (at least for the first 3 rounds).

FYI, if I wanted it as the default for the reaction, I would have called out as part of the reaction.
 
Last edited:

log in or register to remove this ad

dave2008

Legend
My notes on this one.
Thank you again!
Ignite: This is both an extremely powerful and extremely weak ability. On the one hand, its damage and saving throw are pathetic for a CR 20 creature. And yet it can completely disrupt spellcasting, completely negate reactions, and creates disadvantage on all attacks rolls? It strains the belief a bit, how can 3 fire damage autodisrupt the concentration of a 20th level mage when 30 damage attacks are unlikely to shake them?

This is a cool ability but I feel either the damage needs to live up to the effect, or the effect has to be markedly lowered to the damage. What you could do is have the damage apply to the end of the characters turn, but make it half the damage of the breath or something. Now your in a real pickle, do you burn your precious action (which in most fights could be 1/3 or 1/4 of your entire action economy)...or continue to take REAL burning damage?
First it is a CR thing. I can't give it a lot more damage or it changes the CR, which I didn't want. It is basically the heat metal spell with a little extra. I will probably reduce the effects for the elder dragon and leave the full effects for the ancient dragon.

However, despite being its own trait, this is exclusively an effect of the breath weapon. It is the initial breath weapon attack that is causing effects, not the lingering damage, that is just another effect of the fire breath. I may just move it to the breath weapon, but I wanted to keep it separate so it can apply to more than one breath weapon. Which is only relevant for the great wyrm so I may move it back to the fire breath entry.

I like Unstoppable as a replacement for legendary resilience. The 30 damage means at least the caster did something for their labors.
Yep, that is the intent.

On the spellcasting, I think every spell you picked is a great addition with one exception... I would drop elemental bane as a spell. I get what your going for, its in theory a good weapon against fire resistance creatures, and adds some more punch to the dragon. But in practice, fights don't last that long for your opening salvo to be a spell that MIGHT add "a little extra damage" and consumes your concentration better spent on better spells. I would hate for a DM trying this monster out for the first time and using that spell as the opener, even if it lands I think they would be disappointed as compared to a full round of other things the dragon can do. Honestly I would rather you gave them crown of stars 2/day. Now that's a good spell that offers a non-fire damage type against fire resistant creatures, and its one the dragon could cast beforehand if he knows someone's coming.
I will think about it. I originally had a signature spell call "Immolate foe" that did fire damage and removed resistance to fire. But then decided to simply things and just give it elemental bane. However, to be honest, I forgot to review the spell list after copying it from the ancient red. I will have to change several spells as I have one to many and several (if not all of them) are to high level.

Oh one point for clarification. The tail sweep is 20 ft....but its a 30 ft cone. I assume one of the two numbers is a typo.
I must have corrected it while you were typing for when I went back to check after reading your post it was already at 20 ft. for both.
 

Stalker0

Legend
I will think about it. I originally had a signature spell call "Immolate foe" that did fire damage and removed resistance to fire. But then decided to simply things and just give it elemental bane. However, to be honest, I forgot to review the spell list after copying it from the ancient red. I will have to change several spells as I have one to many and several (if not all of them) are to high level.

I must have corrected it while you were typing for when I went back to check after reading your post it was already at 20 ft. for both.

For a CR 20 I don't think the spells are too high a level at all, they seem perfectly in line with advance options for a dragon. For example Incendiary Cloud is not that great a damage dealer compared to the red dragon's regular weapons, but its a good "ranged counter" by providing cover. But considering its your action and requires concentration...I think its a fine tool in the belt but not one that really makes the dragon "stronger" just "more flexible".

I remember immolate foe, yeah I think ultimately that's a better option. Or going back to your ignite, maybe the dragon's breath weapon just strips off resistance. The resistance works for the first hit, but after that fire res is gone.
 

dave2008

Legend
For a CR 20 I don't think the spells are too high a level at all, they seem perfectly in line with advance options for a dragon. For example Incendiary Cloud is not that great a damage dealer compared to the red dragon's regular weapons, but its a good "ranged counter" by providing cover. But considering its your action and requires concentration...I think its a fine tool in the belt but not one that really makes the dragon "stronger" just "more flexible".
While I don't necessarily disagree with you, those aren't the rules. Per the dragon spell casting variant in the MM, the dragon can cast a number of spells per day equal to its Charisma modifier and the max level is equal to 1/3 its CR. For the elder red that is 5 spells of a max of 6th level. Do I have to agree with this? No, but I find it interesting to deal with some constraints.

I remember immolate foe, yeah I think ultimately that's a better option. Or going back to your ignite, maybe the dragon's breath weapon just strips off resistance. The resistance works for the first hit, but after that fire res is gone.
I might just go back to that.
 

Stalker0

Legend
For the banelich's overchannel ability, does it work on the spell for the whole duration or just the first round. Example would be blade barrier. If it 60 damage on round 1, 6d10 on each subsequent round, or just 60 damage every round?
 

Stalker0

Legend
For the elder red that is 5 spells of a max of 6th level. Do I have to agree with this? No, but I find it interesting to deal with some constraints.

If you want a few new options:

1) Wall of Fire can be a replacement for Incendiary cloud. Again, its main purpose is to block line of sight to discourage ranged attacks.
2) Steel Wind Strike. Gives you another "area affect" and mobility, and some non fire damage if you need it.
3) Melf's Minute Meteors (upgraded to 5th): A weaker Crown of Stars but serves the same purpose. A good spell you could cast ahead of time that will augment your action economy.
4) Fireball (upgraded to 5th) - Because...fireball! A way to get your ranged damage if breath is on cooldown.
 

dave2008

Legend
For the banelich's overchannel ability, does it work on the spell for the whole duration or just the first round. Example would be blade barrier. If it 60 damage on round 1, 6d10 on each subsequent round, or just 60 damage every round?
Just the first round, I will clarify that - thanks!
 

dave2008

Legend
If you want a few new options:

1) Wall of Fire can be a replacement for Incendiary cloud. Again, its main purpose is to block line of sight to discourage ranged attacks.
2) Steel Wind Strike. Gives you another "area affect" and mobility, and some non fire damage if you need it.
3) Melf's Minute Meteors (upgraded to 5th): A weaker Crown of Stars but serves the same purpose. A good spell you could cast ahead of time that will augment your action economy.
4) Fireball (upgraded to 5th) - Because...fireball! A way to get your ranged damage if breath is on cooldown.
Good suggestions - thanks!
 

Stalker0

Legend
One note on the big water elementals. So I've also assumed the base water elemental just "took 10" on its athletics check for the grapple escape DC (as its normally an opposed athletics check.

The bigger elementals actually have proficiency in athletics, so should the escape DC be adjusted accordingly?

I am actually making a really epic fight coming up involving a lot of water elementals (ancient, elder, and regular), so I've been stating things up. Here are just my general notes as I've been making the encounters, and then I'll let you know how it actually went.

1) The Elder's AC is 13 but the other elementals are 14. I've made it 14 just to make it easier for me to run, that way everything has the same AC.

2) Comparing the water elemental to the air one, the spells are much weaker in general. One thing I did is add in Control Weather to the Ancient Water (precipitation only). I really liked this massive storm as being the warning that these elementals are coming. I also gave them acid splash (11th level) as an at-will (but bludgeoning instead of acid damage). This gives them a little more to do with their bonus action cast, as control water doesn't always come up. Lastly I gave them Vitriolic Sphere (bludgeoning instead of acid) instead of watery sphere. I figure the elementals attacks already have the grapple and can't breath motiff, so watery sphere is just more of the same. Vitriolic offers some area damage and most importantly, some range....which is a weakness of the water elemental, so I thought to beef that up a bit for the bigger ones.

3) Considering that the higher elementals get saving throw advantage and advantage against incapacitation...I'm just going to add Incapacitation to their list of immunities. They already have so many others that I think it fits right in, and its one less things for me to think about saving throw wise.

4) The Ancient has the ability to grapple on its slam. I am pondering using the same mechanic as whelm, once your grappled your just in the elemental, taking damage and unable to breath. Was curious what the intention was?
 

dave2008

Legend
One note on the big water elementals. So I've also assumed the base water elemental just "took 10" on its athletics check for the grapple escape DC (as its normally an opposed athletics check.

The bigger elementals actually have proficiency in athletics, so should the escape DC be adjusted accordingly?

I am actually making a really epic fight coming up involving a lot of water elementals (ancient, elder, and regular), so I've been stating things up. Here are just my general notes as I've been making the encounters, and then I'll let you know how it actually went.

1) The Elder's AC is 13 but the other elementals are 14. I've made it 14 just to make it easier for me to run, that way everything has the same AC.

2) Comparing the water elemental to the air one, the spells are much weaker in general. One thing I did is add in Control Weather to the Ancient Water (precipitation only). I really liked this massive storm as being the warning that these elementals are coming. I also gave them acid splash (11th level) as an at-will (but bludgeoning instead of acid damage). This gives them a little more to do with their bonus action cast, as control water doesn't always come up. Lastly I gave them Vitriolic Sphere (bludgeoning instead of acid) instead of watery sphere. I figure the elementals attacks already have the grapple and can't breath motiff, so watery sphere is just more of the same. Vitriolic offers some area damage and most importantly, some range....which is a weakness of the water elemental, so I thought to beef that up a bit for the bigger ones.

3) Considering that the higher elementals get saving throw advantage and advantage against incapacitation...I'm just going to add Incapacitation to their list of immunities. They already have so many others that I think it fits right in, and its one less things for me to think about saving throw wise.

4) The Ancient has the ability to grapple on its slam. I am pondering using the same mechanic as whelm, once your grappled your just in the elemental, taking damage and unable to breath. Was curious what the intention was?
Thank you as always for the comments and any play-test feedback would be great! I think your recommendations are spot on. I will get them added when I get a minute. Regarding the grapple option on the slam attack, I think I added that because I wanted to add an option to throw grappled targets, but then didn't add it. The whelm idea is probably better anyway. Thank you as always.
 

Remove ads

AD6_gamerati_skyscraper

Remove ads

Upcoming Releases

Top