D&D 5E 5e Updates: Monstrous Compendium

dave2008

Legend
DRAGON TACTICS: ALTERNATE ACTIONS
All dragons have a typical claw/claw/bite attack and a breath weapon. However, as a dragon ages, not only does it increase in size, strength, magical ability, it also learns additional or improved methods of combat and tactics as indicated in the Dragon Tactics by Age table. The table list the age a dragon first learns to use a given tactic. Once it learns a tactic, it can use it at any subsequent age. A dragon may replace a standard action or a legendary action with any alternate action it knows as detailed in the alternate actions description.

DRAGON TACTICS BY AGE
AgeTactics Known
Wyrmling---
Young---
Juvenile---
Young AdultSnatch, Wing Buffet
AdultDive, Multi-claws, Strafing, Tail Sweep
ElderCrush, Flyby Slam, Throw
AncientSustained Breath
WyrmShaped Breath
Great WyrmDeath Breath

BREATH WEAPONS
The dragon's breath weapon is its most iconic and devastating attack. As a dragon ages it learns more ways to use its breath weapon. The Dragon Tactics by Age table indicates when a dragon is able to use the breath weapon options below.
  • Death Breath. When a dragon reduces a creature to 0 hit points with its breath weapon, it dies.
  • Shaped Breath. When a dragon uses its breath weapon, it can mold it to avoid creatures of its choice in area or line of effect. The dragon can exclude a number of targets equal to its Intelligence modifier from taking damage from its breath weapon.
  • Strafing. If a dragon moves in a straight line in the same round that it uses its breath weapon, it can add the movement to the length of its breath weapon. For cone shaped breath weapons, the added length is a line the width of the cone added to the end of the cone.
  • Sustained Breath. The dragon continues using its breath weapon on the turn after it initiated its breath weapon. If it does so, it cannot take any Actions on its turn after sustaining its breath weapon.
DRAGON MANEUVERS
As a dragon ages it learns from its many years of battle and conquest, adding new maneuvers to its arsenal of attacks. The Dragon Tactics by Age table indicates when a dragon is able to choose the attack options below.
  • Throw. Instead of its multiattack action, the dragon makes a bite attack. On a hit, if the target is two size categories smaller than the dragon, the target is also grabbed and thrown 60 feet and knocked prone. If a thrown target strikes a solid surface, the target takes 3 (1d6) bludgeoning damage for every 10 feet it was thrown. If the target is thrown at another creature, that creature must succeed on a DC 17 Dexterity saving throw or take the same damage and be knocked prone.
    • Ancient: Increase the distance a creature is thrown to 80 feet and the save DC to 20.
    • Great Wyrm: Increase the distance a creature is thrown to 100 feet and the save DC to 23.
  • Tail Sweep. Instead of its multiattack action, a dragon can make a Tail Slam attack against each target in a cone the length of its Tail Slam's reach. On a failed save, the target is knocked prone or pushed 10 feet*, the dragon's choice, but not stunned.
    • Ancient: The distance a creature is pushed increases to 20 feet.
    • Great Wyrm: The distance a creature is pushed increases to 40 feet.
DRAGON FLIGHT & MANEUVERS
The flying speed provided in a dragon's stat block describes its typical combat speed. The speed at which it can execute quick turns and combat maneuvers. However, dragons are capable of much greater speeds. All true dragons have the following trait.
  • Overland Flight. When a dragon is not engaged in an encounter and has flown in a straight line for at least 2 rounds, it can move at 10 times its flying speed.
Flying Dragons have a number of tactics available to them they are not available once they have landed. The Dragon Tactics by Age table indicates when a dragon is able to choose one of the aerial maneuver options below.
  • Multi-claws. When a flying dragon takes the multiattack action, it can make four claw attacks instead of two claw and one bite attack, if it is attacking another airborne creature.
  • Crush. An airborne dragon can use an action to land in the space of creatures one size category below its own. The dragon makes one claw attack on each creature in its space. On a hit, the target is also knocked prone and grappled. On a miss, the creature can use a reaction to move to a space adjacent to the dragon. If that target can't use a reaction or doesn't want to move, it is grappled. A target grappled this way is also restrained. A creature is no longer grappeld by the dragon if it moves or makes a claw attack on a different target.
  • Dive. If a dragon flies straight down toward an airborne target for at least 60 feet, it can use an action to make a claw attack on the same turn. On a hit the target takes double damage and must make a DC 17 Constitution saving throw or be stunned.
    • Ancient: Increase the save DC to 20.
    • Great Wyrm: Increase the save DC to 23.
  • Flyby Slam. If a dragon flies at least 20 feet straight toward a target and then makes a Tail Slam attack, on a hit the attack does double damage and the dragon does not provoke opportunity attacks when it flies out of an enemies reach. Additionally, this attack does quadruple damage to objects and structures.
  • Snatch. If a dragon flies at least 20 feet straight toward a target and then makes a Bite attack, and the target is three size categories smaller than the dragon, the target is also grappled on a hit. A creature grappled this way is also restrained and moves with the dragon. The dragon cannot make claw attacks against a creature it has snatched, in the same turn the creature was snatched.
  • Wing Buffet.If the dragon moves at least 40 feet and comes to a stop on its turn, all attacks against the dragon are at disadvantage, the dragon gains a +5 AC bonus against ranged attacks, and the dragon must land at the end of its turn. If the dragon is within 15 feet of the ground containing loose dirt and debris when it stops, all creatures within 150 feet of the dragon must make a DC 15 Constitution saving throw or be blinded. All effects last until the start of the dragon's next turn.
    • Elder: Increase the distance above the ground to 20 feet, the range to 180 feet, and the save DC to 17.
    • Ancient: Increase the distance above the ground to 25 feet, the range to 210 feet, and the save DC to 19.
    • Wyrm: Increase the distance above the ground to 30 feet, the range to 240 feet, and the save DC to 22.
    • Great Wyrm: Increase the distance above the ground to 40 feet, the range to 270 feet, and the save DC to 25.
 
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dave2008

Legend
Do you have rules or suggestions for scalable Great Wyrms? E.G Great-Great-Great Wyrms?
Above greatwyrm you're in dragon god territory. Dragons that powerful should, IMO, be unique creatures and you can give them stats similar to a deity, archfiend, or other power entity.

As an example, the greatwyrm red is a mythic monster. You can make it more powerful just by giving it more mythic stages, increase its CR, or both. I guess following the pattern I've started:

Greatwrym (mythic)
Minor Dragon god*: higher CR, probably about 27-31 depending on type, (i.e. a CR 31 red should be more powerful than a CR 25 mythic red)
Lesser Dragon god*: higher CR 28-32 + mythic
Intermediate Dragon god*: Higher CR 35-39
Major Dragon god*: Higher CR 36-40 + mythic
Greater Dragon god*: Higher CR 43-47
Great Dragon: Highest CR 47-50 + Mythic

Of course you could use multiple stages of mythic instead.

*dragon gods are not true deities, they are just really old and powerful dragons that rule over their lesser kin, IMO.
 


imeannoharm

Dorkus
I have added the Great Wyrm Red Dragon per @Just Passing Through 's request. I will probably revisit this after I finish the rest of the dragons, but this is a good starting point for what I am thinking about for great wyrm dragons.

Now I really am taking a bit of a break!
Alright, your 15 minutes are over XD
Suggestions for Neutral Evil Archfiends? Starting the General of Gehenna, perhaps seven exarchs, four horsemen, Oinodaemon, etc.
 

Above greatwyrm you're in dragon god territory. Dragons that powerful should, IMO, be unique creatures and you can give them stats similar to a deity, archfiend, or other power entity.

As an example, the greatwyrm red is a mythic monster. You can make it more powerful just by giving it more mythic stages, increase its CR, or both. I guess following the pattern I've started:

Greatwrym (mythic)
Minor Dragon god*: higher CR, probably about 27-31 depending on type, (i.e. a CR 31 red should be more powerful than a CR 25 mythic red)
Lesser Dragon god*: higher CR 28-32 + mythic
Intermediate Dragon god*: Higher CR 35-39
Major Dragon god*: Higher CR 36-40 + mythic
Greater Dragon god*: Higher CR 43-47
Great Dragon: Highest CR 47-50 + Mythic

Of course you could use multiple stages of mythic instead.

*dragon gods are not true deities, they are just really old and powerful dragons that rule over their lesser kin, IMO.

It seems a bit strange to jump from mythic to non mythic with a higher CR, then jump back to mythic again and repeat the pattern. Especially as the bounded accuracy nature of 5e means that increasing CR by just 5 or so levels will probably result in the mythic dragon winning in a fight (doubled hit points will mean that it will likely outlast the non mythic dragon, because 5 CRs does not lead to a very big numbers advantage for the non mythic dragon).

I would probably just go with them being either mythic or non mythic all the way up.

*I am personally not a big fan of this approach, almost every other mortal species has gods specific to that species, and every single edition of dnd since 1e has dragon deities. Dragons and their deities should be special...but I do not think the solution to that should be not having them have deities at all.
 


dave2008

Legend
It seems a bit strange to jump from mythic to non mythic with a higher CR, then jump back to mythic again and repeat the pattern. Especially as the bounded accuracy nature of 5e means that increasing CR by just 5 or so levels will probably result in the mythic dragon winning in a fight (doubled hit points will mean that it will likely outlast the non mythic dragon, because 5 CRs does not lead to a very big numbers advantage for the non mythic dragon).

I would probably just go with them being either mythic or non mythic all the way up.
It is just a thought exercise at this point. The CR jump should 7. So that would leave the higher CR dragon a little stronger than the mythic dragon 7 CR below. Here is a comparison:

Mythic CR 22 dragon:
XP = 82,000 (effective)
HP 490 X 2 = 980 (effective)
DPR = 160

Legendary CR 29 dragon:
XP = 135,000
HP = 805
DPR = 304

The mythic dragon has 22% more HP, but the Legendary dragon has 90% more DPR. The thought was to spend that DPR budget to give the higher CR dragon slighly more HP and higher AC then the mythic version, along with better attack bonuses. I haven't tried it yet so I don't know if it works. I was just a quick thought experiment to provide a different type of advancement. The easier thing to do is just increase CR or mythic stages, but I like to try new things out and see what works.
*I am personally not a big fan of this approach, almost every other mortal species has gods specific to that species, and every single edition of dnd since 1e has dragon deities. Dragons and their deities should be special...but I do not think the solution to that should be not having them have deities at all.
That is fine. Everyone has there thing. However, this is indead how dragons were potrayed in basic D&D (BECMI) from 1983 - 1994. There were the dragon "rulers" and the Great Dragon. They had abilities like gods ("Immortals" in BECMI), but they were a separate thing. Now some gods / immortals took the shape of a dragon, but they were gods, not true dragons. Just wanted to clarify that I that my choice stems from nostalgia for the D&D I grew up with, not some made up whimsy. FYI, It is also reminiscent of many Asian mythologies with power dragon rulers who are god-like, but not actually gods.
 

dave2008

Legend
Alright, your 15 minutes are over XD
Suggestions for Neutral Evil Archfiends? Starting the General of Gehenna, perhaps seven exarchs, four horsemen, Oinodaemon, etc.
Absolutely, I am always interested in the daemon/yugoloth lords. Personally I prefer the "General of Gehenna" to be mirage created either by the Oinodaemon or the hags (can't remember what they are called) to create confusion, stress, fear, etc. There is no "General of Gehenna," it is just the Oinodaemon by another name, at least that is my thought.

PS I am a big believer in Anthraxus ;)
 
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I really like Demogorgon at mythic CR28ish and Tiamat (the uber dragon) being CR30ish. Closer to WotC, not just bigger numbers and actually sort of fightable for 20th lvl tricked out parties with some boons.
A bit concerned with 'regular' dragons going so high, not too mention Amman, who is not even that big a player. IMO it's more difficult to make great difficult monsters in the late CR twenties or so, than just adding bigger and bigger numbers.
Not trying to rain on any parades, just some input for thought.
 

dave2008

Legend
@Just Passing Through:
After reviewing my idea I tend to agree that flip-flopping back and forth between legendary and mythic is not the nest way. I think I will probably just go with once dragons hit mythic, the just increase in CR as they get more powerful (higher CR mythic versions).

So to revise my chart:
Greatwrym (mythic) CR 21-25
Minor Dragon god: (mythic) CR 26-30
Lesser Dragon god: (mythic) CR 31-35
Intermediate Dragon god: (mythic) CR 36-40
Major Dragon god: (mythic) CR 41-45
Great Dragon: (mythic) CR 50
 
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dave2008

Legend
I really like Demogorgon at mythic CR28ish and Tiamat (the uber dragon) being CR30ish. Closer to WotC, not just bigger numbers and actually sort of fightable for 20th lvl tricked out parties with some boons.
A bit concerned with 'regular' dragons going so high, not too mention Amman, who is not even that big a player. IMO it's more difficult to make great difficult monsters in the late CR twenties or so, than just adding bigger and bigger numbers.
Not trying to rain on any parades, just some input for thought.
I'm all about bigger numbers man! And there will be more powerful versions of Demogorgon and Tiamat to come. I will keep these puny versions up though. ;)

Personally, when it comes to gods and archfiends, I'm not to worried about making things for groups at 20th lvl + a few boons. I want those beast to be over-the-top. However, the great thing with the mythic stages and you can stop at any stage and tailor the difficulty of the encounter. To use your example, you can fight Annam as:

Legendary Annam: 1,230 HP
Mythic Annam: 2,230 HP
Mythic Annam, Stage 2: 3,330 HP
Mythic Annam, Stage 3: 4,330 HP

This way you get 4 different levels of threat. He can discorporate (need to clarify that in the traits) at any stage of the process. It can work for people who want to just use a 20th level + a few boons or someone who is using a epic lvl 30 or even 40 pc. And it accommodates different size groups that way as well. Of course it is not just bigger numbers. Most stages bring new options to the table as well. I hope to emphasize this more as I get better at them.
 

But why not stay closer to 3e, 4e and 5e CRs, and then let the number of mythic stages be the upscaling factor, like you considered in an earlier post?

Edit: myself I'm thinking a base CR of the 4e CR minus 5 (except Gods) . So Demogorgon CR29, Tiamat CR30,Orcus CR28, Ancient Red Dragon CR25, Lolth CR34 and so on (minor adjustment for some monsters like the Tarrasque).
 

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