log in or register to remove this ad

 

5E 5e Updates: Mythic, Epic, and Hardcore Monsters

Matrix Sorcica

Adventurer
Not sure what FX devils are but here is my first pass:
For example devils.

I would move the original DMG table (and thus all of your other tables as well) up one category for weapon resistances, i.e. x1.25 for CR6-10 and x1 multiplier for CR11-16 and so on. I really don't think magic weapon resistance is as relevant as the DMG wants it to be.
 

log in or register to remove this ad


dave2008

Legend
Isn't 30x30 small for a colossal creature? I thought the minimum was 60x60.
Colossal is whatever I decided it is! There is no colossal in 5e, but for the purpose of my work it starts at 25x25 as noted in the Epic Damage by Ability Score table. Basically, colossal is anything over gargantuan (20x20) which may need special rules because of size. That is why it is a trait and specifically not a size. Notice everything with the colossal trait is still Gargantuan in size.
 

dave2008

Legend
For example devils.

I would move the original DMG table (and thus all of your other tables as well) up one category for weapon resistances, i.e. x1.25 for CR6-10 and x1 multiplier for CR11-16 and so on. I really don't think magic weapon resistance is as relevant as the DMG wants it to be.
got it - I wasn't familiar with that short hand - thanks!

So like this?

BPS Effective Hit Points Based on Resistances​

CRNM BPS ResistancesU BPS ResistancesR BPS ResistancesVR BPS ResistancesL BPS ResistancesA BPS Resistances
1–4× 1.5× 2× 2× 2× 2× 2
5–10× 1.25× 1.5× 1.5× 2× 2× 2
11–16× 1× 1.25× 1.25× 1.5× 2× 2
17-20× 1× 1.25× 1.125× 1.25× 1.5× 2
21-25× 1× 1× 1× 1
× 1.25× 1.5
26+× 1× 1× 1× 1× 1× 1.25

NM BPS = Nonmagical bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing damage
U BPS = uncommon magical bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing damage
R BPS = rare magical bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing damage
VR BPS = very rare magical bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing damage
L BPS = legendary magical bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing damage
A BPS = artifact magical bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing damage
 
Last edited:


Matrix Sorcica

Adventurer
You can then say against vampires or devils for example, that silver counts as rare or very rare weapons, or as one rarity higher.
Other materials can have similar effect vs other types of monsters.
 

dave2008

Legend
You can then say against vampires or devils for example, that silver counts as rare or very rare weapons, or as one rarity higher.
Other materials can have similar effect vs other types of monsters.
I get that, it just that my preference would be to keep the original chart and then add to it, rather than modify the original. So I probably will not bump it up, but I will think about it.
 

Stalker0

Legend
I really don't think magic weapon resistance is as relevant as the DMG wants it to be.

I agree with this. Quite frankly, this is going to vary so wildly from campaign to campaign that I personally think its pointless to try and include it in CR calculations....and I wonder if this is part of the reason my party always seems to dominate even high CR challenges....because I assume magic weapons for all of my party.

I personally would go with the notion that you assume players have the tools needed to fight the monster as the base CR...unless the resistances are particular exotic or insurmountable (example: resistance to all damage except psychic, I would expect a group to get psychic damage, but unlikely that all party members would wield psychic damage)
 

Stalker0

Legend
My blue dragon quick and dirty review

1) I like static charge. Immediately differentiates the previous dragons and feels well within flavor.

2) Multi-attack needs a cleanup. Looks like the substitution is written backwards, I think you mean substitute 1 bite or 2 claws in order to gain a 1 tail attack but it reads the opposite way. That said, I like the notion that blue dragons are better with their tails and so include that in their routine, a subtle but nice touch.

3) I like giving the blues a horn attack...but I would like to see the effect more differentiated, as there already a lot of proning in the core dragon routine. So what if it was more like a gore attack, or something that did wounding damage, or maybe you grappled on the horn or something. I think there is more space to play with that attack to make it interesting.

4) The thunderclap damage. This is where the perception differentiates from the paper. On paper the damage all adds up, perception the fact that a dragon is using an entire "action" and dealing 5 damage.... to characters capable of 7-9th level spells.... its like "why bother". All it does is trigger death saving throws (and the strip resistance of course), which is a solid purpose, but its feels out of flavor with a mighty and powerful dragon. This is different of course from the static charge or ignite abilities...because those are more "automatic", they just happen during the battle, and so can add up, as compared to a dragon's "action".

But here's an easy way to clean it up without changing the numbers....make the damage automatic. Alright you all are hit....take 5 damage, and now make a saving throw. Players are very funny about automatic damage, it immediately scares them, even if its low. I still remember the time I used a monster (reskinned from just a simple magic missile wielding mage). Even though I was doing about the damage a party would take even if they passed a fireball saving throw...they freaked out, because the damage was "unstoppable".

So by making the damage automatic it adds a little bit of terror in, even though realistically the damage is nothing at those levels. It also makes the ability easier for the dm. If the party doesn't have lightning resistance (either because they didn't have it or its already been stripped), the DM can just give out damage without doing a whole round of saves, speeds things up a bit.

5) Breath: My only note, i would increase the width to 10 ft. This is mainly because as long as it is, I always find lines are so much weaker than cones in the vast majority of scenarios. A 10 ft width gives you just a little bit of room to maneuver. I like that the breath seems stronger in damage, weaker in effect, and weaker on magic strip....like you said more of an artillery weapon.

If you wanted to differentiate it just a bit more, you could do something with recharge to show that the dragon is literally "powering up" and is now teeming with electricity. I mention this because as an artillery piece I imagine the "breath + recharge + breath" maybe more common than the "breath + multi + multi" routine.

Recharge: You regain the use of your breath. Until the start of your next turn, your static charge damage is doubled.
 


dave2008

Legend
I personally would go with the notion that you assume players have the tools needed to fight the monster as the base CR...unless the resistances are particular exotic or insurmountable (example: resistance to all damage except psychic, I would expect a group to get psychic damage, but unlikely that all party members would wield psychic damage)
Yep, I think that is generally a good approach
 

dave2008

Legend
My blue dragon quick and dirty review
As always much appreciated.
1) I like static charge. Immediately differentiates the previous dragons and feels well within flavor.
Thanks, I wanted to make sure their are some differences between the different dragons
2) Multi-attack needs a cleanup. Looks like the substitution is written backwards, I think you mean substitute 1 bite or 2 claws in order to gain a 1 tail attack but it reads the opposite way. That said, I like the notion that blue dragons are better with their tails and so include that in their routine, a subtle but nice touch.
I wrote a couple different ways. I will look at again. I also added to red and green a think - so that wasn't intended as a differentiating feature - sorry!
3) I like giving the blues a horn attack...but I would like to see the effect more differentiated, as there already a lot of proning in the core dragon routine. So what if it was more like a gore attack, or something that did wounding damage, or maybe you grappled on the horn or something. I think there is more space to play with that attack to make it interesting.
I agree, I was a little pressed for time. I think about what can be done to give something all its own. I don't think there is any WotC mechanic to draw on really, so I will have to think about it a bit.
4) The thunderclap damage. This is where the perception differentiates from the paper. On paper the damage all adds up, perception the fact that a dragon is using an entire "action" and dealing 5 damage.... to characters capable of 7-9th level spells.... its like "why bother". All it does is trigger death saving throws (and the strip resistance of course), which is a solid purpose, but its feels out of flavor with a mighty and powerful dragon. This is different of course from the static charge or ignite abilities...because those are more "automatic", they just happen during the battle, and so can add up, as compared to a dragon's "action".

But here's an easy way to clean it up without changing the numbers....make the damage automatic. Alright you all are hit....take 5 damage, and now make a saving throw. Players are very funny about automatic damage, it immediately scares them, even if its low. I still remember the time I used a monster (reskinned from just a simple magic missile wielding mage). Even though I was doing about the damage a party would take even if they passed a fireball saving throw...they freaked out, because the damage was "unstoppable".

So by making the damage automatic it adds a little bit of terror in, even though realistically the damage is nothing at those levels. It also makes the ability easier for the dm. If the party doesn't have lightning resistance (either because they didn't have it or its already been stripped), the DM can just give out damage without doing a whole round of saves, speeds things up a bit.

First I want to comment that in general a group cable of 9th level spells should not, IMO, be going against an adult blue as a solo beast. This should be a solo encounter for 10-12th level group. So really 6th level, maybe 7th level spells max.

I agree, it was more a method to strip lightning resistance. However, I agree with you fix. I will get it done!

5) Breath: My only note, i would increase the width to 10 ft. This is mainly because as long as it is, I always find lines are so much weaker than cones in the vast majority of scenarios. A 10 ft width gives you just a little bit of room to maneuver. I like that the breath seems stronger in damage, weaker in effect, and weaker on magic strip....like you said more of an artillery weapon.

If you wanted to differentiate it just a bit more, you could do something with recharge to show that the dragon is literally "powering up" and is now teeming with electricity. I mention this because as an artillery piece I imagine the "breath + recharge + breath" maybe more common than the "breath + multi + multi" routine.

Recharge: You regain the use of your breath. Until the start of your next turn, your static charge damage is doubled.
I understand the complaint with the width, but it feels right to me for lightning, and it will get wider in the older dragons, I'm fine with the width for now.

I do like the static damage effect, it does paint a nice picture. Consider it done!
 







Matrix Sorcica

Adventurer
I want to make sure the CR 28 Demogorgon isn't the only one you are making. You will include the full-power mythic CR 35 version as well?
Related to this, will you be basing the power of for example Demogorgon, but really all th named baddies of D&D, on 3rd party supplements from DM's Guild, or on your own "epic" character plans, or on expanding the "official" WotC way (i.e. boons)? I know we discussed this before, but I can't actually remember what the outcome was (if any).

I think it will limit the appeal of your work, if you base it on 3rd party material from DM's Guild. The various supplements may differ in power level, and my guess is most people haven't purchased them anyway.

I've already made my preference clear in previous posts, so will refrain from polluting this thread again ;)

P.S.: I will get to the Blues tomorrow. (real life is overrated)
 

dave2008

Legend
I want to make sure the CR 28 Demogorgon isn't the only one you are making. You will include the full-power mythic CR 35 version as well?
There will be another more powerful version. This was a version I made for another thread who was worried the OotA version would be to strong for his lvl 20 group. We all said not a chance and I decided to give the poster a beefed version. This is not my "official" version.
 

Presents for Goblins

Advertisement2

Advertisement4

Top