D&D 5E 5e Updates: Monstrous Compendium

[dave2008]

What if you added +1 attack bonus every 1 CR, rather than every 2? That would make a big difference while still sticking close to the DMG.

The DMG is about +1 per 3 CR, this is already accelerated from that paradigm. I don't want to push it further. Your suggestion would not be "sticking close to the DMG" in my opinion. Which is fine, but not something I am interested in doing. I have another system for completely untouchable monsters and deities.

 

[Matrix Sorcica]

So the paradigm I have set here is what I'm going with.

This is for the monsters. What paradigm do you use for the players, was my question. Do I understand you correctly that there really isn't a 'baseline'?

FYI, the big difference it the 3PP are more reliable, where as boons can be all over the place. I guess in a sense I am basing it off the boons in that I am not concerning myself with party level expectations, which are meaningless in a boon based system.

Doesn't CR become even more meaningless that it already is then? Then again. I guess that at those power levels each party is so unique, that the DM will have to measure their abilities vs a given stat block, no matter the CR.

(I'm still not 100% percent sure why the various baddies' CR has to deviate so much from WotC's "official" standard. Why not just make them mythic like your CR28 Demogorgon? But I guess I will know when my party gets higher lvl and start mopping the floor with high CR foes)

 

[Stalker0]

Doesn't CR become even more meaningless that it already is then? Then again. I guess that at those power levels each party is so unique, that the DM will have to measure their abilities vs a given stat block, no matter the CR.

Yep, I mean realistically once your in the 15+ range, any sort of a "baseline" goes out the window unless your playing Adventurer's league or something (and I wouldn't argue it if someone wanted to say even 12+ was like that). At this levels if your playing organically no party is going to look like any other, and not just stats....at that point most players are going to have something special, something outside the norm. A special power, unique magic item, more allies and contacts than you can shake a stick at, etc.

I think the best thing you can do is just help the DM understand what the monster is supposed to do, where he's strong, and where he's weak.. and then the DM can adapt to his party. I mean if your willing to DM those high levels I assume you know what your doing at that point. And heck if you mess up...parties have resurrection at that level they will be fine

 

[dave2008]

This is for the monsters. What paradigm do you use for the players, was my question. Do I understand you correctly that there really isn't a 'baseline'?

Doesn't CR become even more meaningless that it already is then? Then again. I guess that at those power levels each party is so unique, that the DM will have to measure their abilities vs a given stat block, no matter the CR.

Yes, at higher levels (20+) and especially with epic boons each party is unique and CR really has little to no meaning to the PCs. It is really a tool to measure monsters against each other.

 

[dave2008]

(I'm still not 100% percent sure why the various baddies' CR has to deviate so much from WotC's "official" standard. Why not just make them mythic like your CR28 Demogorgon? But I guess I will know when my party gets higher lvl and start mopping the floor with high CR foes)

The WotC CR's just don't work for post lvl 20 play. It is as simple as that. They need to higher or their is simply nothing to challenge a high level / epic boon party.

 

[Protonicmass]

I have another system for completely untouchable monsters and deities.

Show me!

 

[dave2008]

Show me!

I had a Kickstarter for that a while ago. When it is published you can see it It is a 5e style update to the BECMI
"Immortal Rules" with some epic handbook and other ideas thrown in.

 

[dave2008]

I have completed drafts of the Adult White and Black dragons for review and comment. I would love to hear your thoughts:

• Black Dragon, Adult (Legendary, CR 15)
• White Dragon, Adult (Legendary, CR 14)

I went with a "Brute" approach for the White and a "Lurker" approach for the black. Taking a bit of the 4e approach. I still need to balance some things with the black, but I thought I would get some feedback first.

 

[Matrix Sorcica]

For the White, there should be a size limit for being proned/pushed like the tail. Otherwise, like it! Though, it doesn't seem as "brutish" as its 4e role (and earlier) would indicate.

For the Black, there should be a size limit for being proned/pushed like the tail. The Black must be in melee to remove resistance to acid. That's quite an disadvantage. But somehow, I don't get a black dragon vibe. Aren't they lurkers?

 

[dave2008]

For the White, there should be a size limit for being proned/pushed like the tail. Otherwise, like it! Though, it doesn't seem as "brutish" as its 4e role (and earlier) would indicate.

It is harder to do true "Brutes" in 5e. It has as much HP as a green dragon (which is CR 16 vs CR 14 for the white) and I gave it the "Brutal" trait which gives it more melee damage. I could give it fewer saving throws to bump its HP if you feel that is more in theme. Similarly I could give it a to hit penalty to increase its damage. That feels brutish to me, should I give that a try?

EDIT: I guess I changed something at some point. It has more HP than the black, but less than the green.

For the Black, there should be a size limit for being proned/pushed like the tail. The Black must be in melee to remove resistance to acid. That's quite an disadvantage. But somehow, I don't get a black dragon vibe. Aren't they lurkers?

I'm still working on it. I gave it the ability to hide and disengage as a bonus action, legendary action movement without OA, and the gloom LA. So it has lots of ways to avoid damage and get advantage on attacks. Technically too many as its CR (because of the hide and disengage traits) should be 2 higher! The thought was with all the ways it can avoid damage and hide it can get into melee to remove the acid resistance. FYI, originally I had an "Acid Gob" ranged attack that removed resistance, but I wanted this guy to be different. Maybe the "Gloom" attack can remove resistance?

What do you think I can do to make it more of a Lurker?