D&D 5E 5e with PF2 Elements

[Lefi2017]

Has anyone tried playing 5e with Elements from Pathfinder second edition?

The Ideas would be:

• 3 Action economic:

3 Actions +1 free action like drawing weapons opening doors or other object - interactions. Spells 2 actions Bonus Spells actions 1 action same spell rules otherwise. Multi-attack-penalty 2ed attack disadvantage third (or higher) double disadvantage 3 3d20 (same for consecutive roles) take the lowest Multi attack and Extra Attack count as 1 action off hand attack doesn't suffer from the penalty but can only be used once per turn Action Surge gives you 3 more action and resets the penalty from melee and range attacks (spell restriction still count)​

​

• Level / Hit Dice to skill Check:
  Player level add to Skill checks AC, saving throws and attacks they are proficient with. Monsters / NPCs add their Cr (min of 1) to their AC Skill checks saving throws and attacks they are proficient in (they are automatic profit with their Armor and weapons). Alternative Hit dices count for Monsters could be used this would require testing

• New Crit /Miss rule:
  + 10 over Ac or nat 20 = critical hit and -10 of AC or Nat 1 fumble (possible add effects)

• Skill Check list:
  Level 1-4: Keeps as in the Book: Level 5-9 add +5 to every difficulty level. Level 10-14 add +10 for each to difficulty level. Level 15-20 add +15 for each to difficulty level. -10or even less than Dc major set back or bad fumble - 5 to -9 off Dc goal minor set back effect -4 to -1 of DC normal fail; 0 to +4 off goal DC normal success +5 to +9 of DC good success add small bonus effect; +10 or higher of DC major success add big / appropriate bonus effect .

Keep the rest as it is DM rulings still trump rules

What do you think?

 

[Stormonu]

I'm not much for treadmill mechanics, so I would not want to see the Level/HD to skill check and the Skill Check list added to 5E. I may be in the minority, but I enjoy that in my current campaign which is now at 7th level goblins can still be a threat - I just have to use enough of them at once.

However, I would not be adverse to changing the somewhat rigid race/class/subclass structure of 5E to a more open buffet of options.

 

[dave2008]

Has anyone tried playing 5e with Elements from Pathfinder second edition?

The Ideas would be:

• 3 Action economic:

3 Actions +1 free action like drawing weapons opening doors or other object - interactions. Spells 2 actions Bonus Spells actions 1 action same spell rules otherwise. Multi-attack-penalty 2ed attack disadvantage third (or higher) double disadvantage 3 3d20 (same for consecutive roles) take the lowest Multi attack and Extra Attack count as 1 action off hand attack doesn't suffer from the penalty but can only be used once per turn Action Surge gives you 3 more action and resets the penalty from melee and range attacks (spell restriction still count)​

​

• Level / Hit Dice to skill Check:
  Player level add to Skill checks AC, saving throws and attacks they are proficient with. Monsters / NPCs add their Cr (min of 1) to their AC Skill checks saving throws and attacks they are proficient in (they are automatic profit with their Armor and weapons). Alternative Hit dices count for Monsters could be used this would require testing

• New Crit /Miss rule:
  + 10 over Ac or nat 20 = critical hit and -10 of AC or Nat 1 fumble (possible add effects)

• Skill Check list:
  Level 1-4: Keeps as in the Book: Level 5-9 add +5 to every difficulty level. Level 10-14 add +10 for each to difficulty level. Level 15-20 add +15 for each to difficulty level. -10or even less than Dc major set back or bad fumble - 5 to -9 off Dc goal minor set back effect -4 to -1 of DC normal fail; 0 to +4 off goal DC normal success +5 to +9 of DC good success add small bonus effect; +10 or higher of DC major success add big / appropriate bonus effect .

Keep the rest as it is DM rulings still trump rules

What do you think?

I've thought about it, but ultimately my group wasn't interested so it never really got off the ground

 

[Lefi2017]

I'm not much for treadmill mechanics, so I would not want to see the Level/HD to skill check and the Skill Check list added to 5E. I may be in the minority, but I enjoy that in my current campaign which is now at 7th level goblins can still be a threat - I just have to use enough of them at once.

However, I would not be adverse to changing the somewhat rigid race/class/subclass structure of 5E to a more open buffet of options.

if for more option as long as they do not boil down to boring +1 or +2 effects and do not result into putting the Dm on the back foo with monsters :

from Dungeon MAgazin 33 - regarding Tasha’s Cauldron of Everything

"CLASS FEATURE VARIANTS

“No other Unearthed Arcana published for fifth edition has been as popular as the one we created for Class Feature Variants. It was so positive, in fact, that most of those options have made it into the book. Some of that material has been refined in a variety of ways, but it’s all going to be recognizable. On top of that, Tasha’s Cauldron of Everything includes some additional options that were designed since that Unearthed Arcana was published. I think there are going to be some really delightful surprises. This book also contains a new version of the blade singer from the Sword Coast Adventurer’s Guide.”"

 

[dave2008]

• Level / Hit Dice to skill Check:
  Player level add to Skill checks AC, saving throws and attacks they are proficient with. Monsters / NPCs add their Cr (min of 1) to their AC Skill checks saving throws and attacks they are proficient in (they are automatic profit with their Armor and weapons). Alternative Hit dices count for Monsters could be used this would require testing

Wouldn't you just add +1 to everything and apply your proficiency bonus only to proficient items? I think that is essentially how PF2 does it IIRC. If you add +level only to proficient things you will have a huge disparity between proficient and non-proficient abilities

 

[Lefi2017]

Wouldn't you just add +1 to everything and apply your proficiency bonus only to proficient items? I think that is essentially how PF2 does it IIRC. If you add +level only to proficient things you will have a huge disparity between proficient and non-proficient abilities

well yes

might need some adjustment for the bard add half his levels to (jack of all trades) now that i think about it to make skill monkeys PC better

and to make higher level threats more scary and allow more solo monsters

well it still is a thought experiment

I try to combine interesting effects is seen in both systems

 

[jsaving]

We currently use PF2e's sorcerer and bard in our 5e campaign without issue so you can certainly take elements from PF2e if you so choose.

 

[jmartkdr2]

I'd approach it from the other direction: PF@ with the Automatic Bonus Progression and Proficiency without Level variant rules should feel a lot like 5e while keeping the good stuff form PF2, like the tight game balance and wide set of options.

 

[jmartkdr2]

Wouldn't you just add +1 to everything and apply your proficiency bonus only to proficient items? I think that is essentially how PF2 does it IIRC. If you add +level only to proficient things you will have a huge disparity between proficient and non-proficient abilities

For what it's worth, in PF2 you only add your level if you're proficient. This means that after a few levels you tend to be useless at things your not proficient in (although there's a feat to get around this). I think the design goal is niche protection.

 

[FrozenNorth]

I would not add the critical hit or the critical miss to 5e attacks. The math in PF2 is a lot tighter than in 5e.

In 5e, you can easily get a spread of 15 AC for the lightly armored folks through 20 AC for the heavily armored folks which means that even low-level monsters (Hill Giant CR 5) will have a 20% chance to crit against the low armor folks.

Note that PF2 does not use critical misses on attacks as they would trigger too frequently.