5FT Step?

[Clumsy Bob]

Okay here is the situation.
Trevor the Mage is in combat with Billy the Barbarian.
Trevor knows he can kill Billy with a spell, but Billy can kill him with an AoO.
So combat casting aside Trevor has the following options.
1] Move away from Billy up to double his move = no AoO
2] Cast a spell = AoO bye bye Trevor.
3] Move and cast spell = bye bye Trevor or,
4] Take a 5ft step = no AoO, then cast spell, out of Billy's threat range = bye bye Billy.

mmm something strikes me as being wrong about number 4. Is this right, if so how do you handle it.
If I'm totally wrong can you explain where?

cheers

Clumsy Bob

 

[dcollins]

Option #4 is completely legitimate and allowed by the rules.

 

[Christian]

Yep. And if Billy is in this situation and has more than two brain cells, he'll ready an attack for 'when the wizard starts casting'. You see, he gets to take a 5' step on his readied action, too (as long as he didn't move with his move-equivalent or take a 5' step on his regular turn). This method can be a nasty surprise to spellcasters and archers who like to use this tactic. (My favorite for the latter case is to ready an action and sunder the bow. Bows don't have much hardness or hit points ...)

 

[Deadguy]

Not disagreeing Christian, and mayhap not even relevant to this discussion, but Billy can if necessary partial charge at Trevor if the mage does something clever and gets more than 5 feet away.

Importantly, the Sage makes clear that these moves aren't things that have to be declared in advance. Billy sets the trigger (Trevor tries to cast a spell), and he'll take the actions (within the permitted limits) to stop him.

 

[Number47]

And with a barbarians enhanced speed, Trevor is ska-rewed!

 

[hong]

1] Move away from Billy up to double his move = no AoO
2] Cast a spell = AoO bye bye Trevor.
3] Move and cast spell = bye bye Trevor or,
4] Take a 5ft step = no AoO, then cast spell, out of Billy's threat range = bye bye Billy.

mmm something strikes me as being wrong about number 4. Is this right, if so how do you handle it.
If I'm totally wrong can you explain where?

As others have said, 4) is the correct option by the 3E rules. The problem is that it isn't consistent with how previous editions handled magic, where any sort of interruption meant a wasted spell. Which results in a lot of confused people.

This is how I handwave it. When you cast a spell, the initial step doesn't actually involve any significant physical or mental effort at all. You're opening a channel to the appropriate outer plane or elemental plane or wherever else the source of your power is; this only takes a moment. Then the power is pooled and concentrated within your psyche, a process that can take up to several seconds, depending on the casting time of the spell. At this stage, any unanticipated disturbance can upset your psyche and cause the stored magical energy to be dissipated; hence you have to make a Concentration check to keep your spell going. However, the spellcaster can still move around as necessary to defend himself; he isn't standing stock-still for fear of losing his spell. Only just before the spell is released, do you make the necessary hand gestures or speak the words that will cast it.

What this means is that someone who casts a spell is actually in motion the whole time, trying to avoid blows from enemies, just like anyone else. They aren't a sitting duck, which is why the 5-foot step to avoid attacks is permissible. Basically the only way to prevent a spellcaster getting a spell off, is to grapple them, which stops the final steps in casting the spell.

 

[Solomani]

Hmmmm...my group had quite a few arguments about this particular use of the five foot step, largely due to it's lack of realism when applied to the real life version of the situation.

Basically if you are going to do something that leaves you open to attack and you are in melee with another person you simply cannot take a small step back to avoid their threat. Unlike the game real life doesn't operate in terms of one person doing all their actions and then allowing another to do theirs whilst they stand absolutely stock still.

I know that the rules do basically allow this but to keep up the suspension of disbelief the house rule now prevailing in our group is that the five foot step back only works if the person who threatens is currently threatening more than one individual. On a one on one situation it is assumed that they otherwise automatically take a five foot step to stay in contact.

As a matter of note this decision was actually forced by a Star Wars game. eg; DM: Right the stormtrooper takes another 5' step back and shoots you again. Jedi PC: *&$*&*.

I also know the argument that an action can be readied against this development. But that requires that a character gives up his normal full attack options (especially bad after 5th level). In return for a possible single attack.

 

[hong]

Hmmmm...my group had quite a few arguments about this particular use of the five foot step, largely due to it's lack of realism when applied to the real life version of the situation.

Basically if you are going to do something that leaves you open to attack and you are in melee with another person you simply cannot take a small step back to avoid their threat.

... and therefore actions that allow you to take a 5-foot step are not actions that leave you "open to attack". Notice that you do not lose your Dex bonus when casting spells, nor are you treated as helpless or immobile. You're still moving around trying to avoid getting hit, but there's a split-second when your attention is focused on getting the spell off, and that's when the AoO strikes.

As a matter of note this decision was actually forced by a Star Wars game. eg; DM: Right the stormtrooper takes another 5' step back and shoots you again. Jedi PC: *&$*&*.

What's wrong with that? It seems perfectly reasonable to allow a blaster to be fired from the hip, especially if the target is right in front of you.

 

[Corlon]

As a matter of note this decision was actually forced by a Star Wars game. eg; DM: Right the stormtrooper takes another 5' step back and shoots you again. Jedi PC: *&$*&*.

And then the jedi PC takes a five foot step, and uses his full attack action to chop the storm trooper into little tiny pieces!
Or, the jedi uses force push to shove the storm trooper into the reactor core he is standing infront of
Or, the jedi takes teh darkside point to use force lightning and/or force choke to kill him,
Or, the jedi uses quickdraw to take out his heavy blaster and blasts the storm trooper
Or, the jedi jumps behind the e-web blaster right behind him and blows the **** out of the stormtrooper
Or Or Or OR

there are so many ways to deal with this Problem*




*this is not actually a problem, it is just something that hardly causes the tiniest bit of annoyance

 

[dcollins]

Admittedly, I've started to seriously consider house-ruling 5' steps (adjustments) so that they're only available at the end of a character's turn sequence (i.e., after actions are complete). That would alter this issue, and solve the problem of needing to declare 5' adjustments -- but take away the ability to 5' step in the middle of a full attack action.