D&D 5E 5th edition Forgotten Realms: Why can't you just ignore the lore?

[Sailor Moon]

yeah but this is searching thru editions past for sourcebooks that may or may not have any relevance (not to mention the fact that most sourcebooks are a chore to read). the default 5e setting 'lore' is basically nothing but some familiar city names and yeah you could go back and read a bunch of ed greenwood stuff and apply it to your campaign...but what's the point then? it's basically 2e or 3e settings with 5e mechanics.

but then we come back to the question of is 5e just a ruleset/set of mechanics? is it a system or a world? to the question of could you ignore the lore? with 5e there isn't any lore to ignore...so yes .

5th edition D&D is no different than it has been in the past. The only difference now is it's FR that's the introduction world and not Greyhawk. Why has 5th edition suddenly done something that's been going on for years?

There is nothing in HoTDQ that you have to use. There is no Forgotten Realms specific mechanic that if you leave out the whole system stops functioning. Have some of you even read the module or even really read FR for that matter?

The stuff some of you are coming up with is actually very amusing.

 

[billd91]

Did we go down a rabbit hole around here somewhere? Yes. I think we did.

 

[Jeremy E Grenemyer]

You are incorrect. It is never OK to call someone else a jerk on EN World. Here are the rules, in case you've forgotten them.

Well this is embarrassing.

I apologize, for both putting the wrong information into the forum space, and for the disruption.

 

[Hussar]

It more or less is.

Question then? Why do you want to run a game in the Realms if you don't like the lore?

There's a huge excluded middle there though. If I run the Realms, does that mean I have to like 100% of the lore? Considering the volume of material we're talking about, that would be ridiculous.

If I want to run the Realms, do I have to read the novels? Is that a requirement? How much lore do I need to know to run it? Should I vet every change I make to the lore with my players beforehand?

See, as a non-Realms player, this is precisely the reason I won't use the Realms. It's too much work. If I have to learn that much about the setting just to run it, I might as well make my own. That was what the Spell Plague was for - so you could run the Realms without having to wade through fifteen thousand pages of material scattered across who knows how many publications. But, the die-hard Realms fans absolutely lost their minds over the changes to the Realms.

The "true fans" have taken over the asylum and have made the Realms an exclusive club that excludes any casual player.

This is why you aren't being listened to Sailor Moon and other fans like you. You're trying too hard to exclude everyone else from the table. There's no way a game maker is going to go down that route. You need to pick your battles and this one, in particular, is a losing proposition. There is no way that, after releasing a brand new edition, WOTC isn't going to back it's play with the most well known setting and the most well known monster. Full stop.

 

[Jester David]

Figured I would take this topic to another thread.

It's no secret that the 4th edition Forgotten Realms alientated a "lot" of fans with the Spellplague and the very limited amount of books and detail we got when one of the things that actually make FR unique and inviting is it's deep history and abundent detail.

Well there are of course some people who liked the sparse content but there were more who wanted the vast detail that we've craved for years.

I don't understand why it's so difficult for people to just ignore the lore and use what they want. Why can't I have a thick FR guide with loads of the iconic detail that it's known for? I mean it's a win win for everyone and not just the sparse side.

Hopefully there will be a thick tome or two coming out that will allow those of us who like that much content, to dive in and drink up our fill. I don't need to pay WoTc for permission to buy a sparse book and create my own content.

Didn't you *just* create a thread bashing the Tyranny of a Dragons storyline for slightly changing the lore of the Cult of the Dragon?

 

[GSHamster]

There's a huge excluded middle there though. If I run the Realms, does that mean I have to like 100% of the lore? Considering the volume of material we're talking about, that would be ridiculous.

If I want to run the Realms, do I have to read the novels? Is that a requirement? How much lore do I need to know to run it? Should I vet every change I make to the lore with my players beforehand?

That's all true. But let me suggest that part of the reason players want to play in the Realms is that they want to interact with all these larger-than-life personalities that they've read about. Maybe that's the attraction for those players.

It's like if I want to play Planescape, and there is no philosophy, factions, and/or planar politics, I'm going to be unhappy. Or Al-Qadim without the Arabian Nights and djinn. Or Dragonlance without dragons, dragonarmies or the Towers of High Sorcery.

Or if you're playing a game set in historical times, you need certain famous people to show up at appropriate points. If it's the American Revolution, it's Washington, Franklin, Lafayette, etc. If it's Regency England, then Prince George, Beau Brummell, the Duke of Wellington, Lady Sally Jersey, etc.

Perhaps one important lesson a would-be FR DM needs to learn is "the Art of the Cameo". Or how to have these Realmsian personalities play a part in the campaign. These cameos need to be enough to satisfy the players, but need to keep from overpowering the campaign.

 

[HobbitFan]

I don't know if my experience is representative or unique but I haven't run into a Realms fan in person that fit the stereotype of the lore-fetish, exclusionary uber-fan that the online community has turned into a trope. I've run into plenty of people online and in person that complained about it but never seen it in person.

I don't see anything about the Realms that is problematic that a good DM and players can't work with.

I see some of the issues that onlien commentators (and WOTC in 4E) seem to, but they aren't game stoppers for me.
Some of the complaints made against the Realms aren't reflective of any real problems just perceived flaws based upon personal preference.
And that's fine...I'm not going to tell another player/gm what to like or not like.
People shouldn't pretend though that there is anyhting substantial that is wrong with the Realms objectively. Subjectively, sure, but not objectively and not universally either.

Lots of people liek the Realms. Lots of folks dislike it too. Or are indifferent to it. And that's to be expected of any creative endeavour. It'll have its fnas who like it, love, those who hate it and those who shrug and say "meh".

My question for people who dislike it for whatever reason, is it because of a problem with the setting itself or is it a problem stemming from the novels or an unpleasant run-in with a fan?

 

[Hussar]

Oh hey Hobbitfan, I'd never suggest that. You don't headline NYT Best seller lists multiple times if you suck. And I love the Baldur's Gate games.

I'm certainly not anti Realms.

Otoh I don't see the NPC's as being central to the setting. Waterdeep and the Sword Coast are great. As is Cormyr.

I think that the realms work kinda like the Star Wars universe. There are better games to be had if we can sort of push the big name NPC's off to one side.

 

[Parmandur]

I actually think that the Realms are great insofar as they are *not* all that developed in detail. There are huge parts of Faerun I can run, and have to make up most stuff, while still having that depth of being part of a bigger world; the Border Kingdoms, for instance.

Maybe a problem if you want to play in downtown Waterdeep, but there is a lot of room to play in.

 

[DongMaster]

And I love the Baldur's Gate games.

No love for Icewind Dale?

There is a new Baldur's Gate game coming out by Beamdog (love these games on my iPad).

Realms fan here too, except I know very little of Spellplague and very little after 2E. I have one player who is a super Realms fan but he does not give a rat's ass about what I do with it as long as it is still Realmsie in style, and the Sword Coast exists. I am running it as written in 5E but so far that is a few pages in the rulebook and the Tyranny of Dragons. He is more than fine with that.