D&D General 6-8 encounters (combat?)

[Maxperson]

As far as seeing things as contrivances, that goes back to my comment earlier about bringing incredulity to a game based on make-believe. That doesn't seem like a great strategy to me.

I don't want to play in a world where the gods/universe/whatever is making sure that everyone in existence is constantly functioning under Doom Clocks. Being a make-believe game doesn't in any way mean that things that don't make sense are okay.

 

[Maxperson]

That depends on the DM. "Investigate at your own pace" can easily mean "As you rest, the remaining denizens of the Tomb of NBFI10KY&SFL

Okay. Now I'm going to have to use that and see if the players can figure out what it means. My guess it that they'll just write it off as some sort of code name.

awaken from their ancient slumber and gather to avenge themselves on the intruders. Halfway through the night, whoever is on watch sees dozens of undead closing in on your camp. No, you haven't rested long enough to get the benefits of a long rest yet, why do you ask?"

If the DM plays enemies as intelligent and reactive, investigating at your own pace is almost always risky. (There are a few spells like Leomund's tiny hut that can make it safer... but leaning too hard on those spells carries its own dangers. If you count on the hut to keep you safe, and only discover at the last moment that the monsters have a caster with dispel magic, it's gonna get bad.)

Yes, but that's if they decide to rest in the tomb itself and there are monsters alert to their presence. Further, if they leave to rest, the denizens if aware of them might prepare for their return.

Those are consequences, though, not doom clocks. Nothing says that they can't go do something else for 5 months and then return. Nobody has found it in 10,000 years, so the odds of it being located while they are gone are somewhere between 0 and nil. They are under no time pressure to complete the investigation of that tomb.

 

[Maxperson]

Everyone at the tables I play at know this guideline. But, absolutely no one I have ever met follows it. In fact, there are times we have only 1 combat session, zero explorations, and 1 social. In a two-hour game at fifth level, there is no way to have three combat encounters. It is literally impossible - especially if they are actually separate encounters. (Not "and reinforcements come.") Heck, I will go so far to say at fifth level, you could barely squeeze in three combat encounters in a four-hour game. So if timing like this is accurate,

So session duration has exactly nothing to do with the adventuring day. You can run a four hour session and only go through 30 minutes of the adventuring day. You could repeat that 47 more times if you want and take 48 weeks of once a week 4 hour sessions to go though one adventuring day if you really wanted to. I rather think you could fit 6-8 combat encounters, a half dozen social ones and 15 exploration encounters in 48 four hour sessions if you wanted.

Or lower it to two hour sessions and go through the day in 6 once a week sessions. One encounter a week and you're at 6 for that adventuring day.

How would anyone ever be able to continue a well threaded story with six encounters in a day?

This is a different and unlike the above concern, a real issue of the adventuring day. That's why if you want to preserve the game balance of party vs. creatures AND the game balance between classes(spellcasters and martials), you should move to the alternative rest rules and only have one long rest per week. It's still narratively nonsensical, but it's the lesser evil between 6-8 encounters in a 24 period, unbalancing the game in favor of certain classes and the PCs in general and having a balanced game where rests don't make sense narratively.

 

[iserith]

I don't want to play in a world where the gods/universe/whatever is making sure that everyone in existence is constantly functioning under Doom Clocks.

You're playing in that very world right now.

 

[Maxperson]

You're playing in that very world right now.

I'm not.

 

[iserith]

I'm not.

Oh yeah? Planning on living forever? Nice.

 

[Maxperson]

Planning on living forever?

Nope, but it doesn't matter. I rest pretty much when I want to, do things pretty much when I want to, etc. While I will one day run out of time, until then there is no Doom Clock for the vast majority of the little things in my life. Rarely something will come up like my wife sending me on a time sensitive quest for butter so she can complete her quest to bake something for the holiday get together in the morning. If everything was rushed and time sensitive like that, I would pretty much hate life. It's a good thing life isn't actually like that.

 

[iserith]

Nope, but it doesn't matter. I rest pretty much when I want to, do things pretty much when I want to, etc. While I will one day run out of time, until then there is no Doom Clock for the vast majority of the little things in my life. Rarely something will come up like my wife sending me on a time sensitive quest for butter so she can complete her quest to bake something for the holiday get together in the morning. If everything was rushed and time sensitive like that, I would pretty much hate life. It's a good thing life isn't actually like that.

But we also live in a world where there are deadlines for things, including life itself, and consequences large and small for not doing what we need to do before those deadlines are up. Some of those things we can let go because they aren't important to us, others we can't because they are. So let's not pretend that we don't constantly have things ticking down all around us for various things, forcing us to prioritize what we want to do and how, and that reflecting this reality in a game of D&D is a foreign concept.

If you don't get to the store before the sale is done, you have to pay full price for the butter. If your wife leaves the baked goods in the oven too long, they can burn. These are time pressures, same as there can be in D&D, though the stakes may vary. Again, what you're criticizing is the implementation of doom clocks under the assumption that everything is a rush. Rushing is relative and how they are implemented matters to the play experience.

You didn't respond to my inquiry about what "leisure resting" is upthread either. What is that?

 

[Maxperson]

But we also live in a world where there are deadlines for things, including life itself, and consequences large and small for not doing what we need to do before those deadlines are up.

Yes. Some things in my life have deadlines. Most do not.

Some of those things we can let go because they aren't important to us, others we can't because they are. So let's not pretend that we don't constantly have things ticking down all around us for various things, forcing us to prioritize what we want to do and how, and that reflecting this reality in a game of D&D is a foreign concept.

We don't. A clock can only tick for someone who cares. You can set a doom clock to save the princess, but if the party decides to go have a drink instead, that clock is not for them. It's just for her. Poor girl.

If you don't get to the store before the sale is done, you have to pay full price for the butter. If your wife leaves the baked goods in the oven too long, they can burn. These are time pressures, same as there can be in D&D, though the stakes may vary. Again, what you're criticizing is the implementation of doom clocks under the assumption that everything is a rush. Rushing is relative and how they are implemented matters to the play experience.

Let's not pretend that any time limit is a doom clock in the sense of what is being discussed in this thread. You're arguing that taking a drink is a doom clock because it's only a matter time before you have to pee. That's absurd. A sale is not a doom clock. Nor is leaving the cookie sin the oven.

The doom clock is in context of significant things like being able to rest vs. not being able to rest because your life could end.

You didn't respond to my inquiry about what "leisure resting" is upthread either. What is that?

Taking a rest when there is nothing time pressuring you. I thought that would be obvious.

 

[iserith]

Everyone at the tables I play at know this guideline. But, absolutely no one I have ever met follows it. In fact, there are times we have only 1 combat session, zero explorations, and 1 social. In a two-hour game at fifth level, there is no way to have three combat encounters. It is literally impossible - especially if they are actually separate encounters. (Not "and reinforcements come.") Heck, I will go so far to say at fifth level, you could barely squeeze in three combat encounters in a four-hour game.
So if timing like this is accurate, How would anyone ever be able to continue a well threaded story with six encounters in a day?

I would say that 6 to 8 medium and hard encounters at 5th level in a single session is not only achievable, but relatively easy in a 4-hour session. Which is not to say that a session is the equivalent of an adventuring day. But my group regularly hits that many encounters in a given session. If one can't do that, it's probably related to time management issues like players deciding what to do, resolving turns, and getting distracted with things outside the game.