D&D General 6-8 encounters (combat?)

[Hriston]

The problem IMO is the concept of the "adventuring day." What exactly is that supposed to be?

Any day during an adventure?
Any day with combat encounters?
Any day with any encounters?

Then there is the issue is an adventuring "day" actually a 24-hour ("day") period?
The (arbitrary) amount period of time in which you can take no more than one long rest?

Another issue is the (seemingly obsessive) desire for "balance" between the classes when it comes to encounters. I'm not saying things couldn't be a bit better, but I have found just making the story and having encounters whenever they are appropriate to the narrative creates the best game possible.

An adventuring day is a period of time between long rests that, with the exception of short rests, is spent adventuring, i.e. not in downtime.

 

[DND_Reborn]

An adventuring day is a period of time between long rests that, with the exception of short rests, is spent adventuring, i.e. not in downtime.

Then it is ridiculous to try to "balance" the game around X-Y number of encounters.

Since a long rest is basically sleeping (might as well just admit it) during a 24-hour period, PCs travel and have plenty of days between rests without a single encounter.

So, ultimately it goes back to what I said a long time ago--ignore the guidelines and just play. DMs will learn quickly enough IME for what sort of balance they want to strike.

 

[Hriston]

Then it is ridiculous to try to "balance" the game around X-Y number of encounters.

Since a long rest is basically sleeping (might as well just admit it) during a 24-hour period, PCs travel and have plenty of days between rests without a single encounter.

So, ultimately it goes back to what I said a long time ago--ignore the guidelines and just play. DMs will learn quickly enough IME for what sort of balance they want to strike.

I don't understand what you're saying. A long rest is variable in length. It's at least eight hours but can be a week long if using Gritty Realism. It's as long as the group decides it is.

 

[Hriston]

Adventuring is strenuous activity: "walking, fighting, casting spells, or similar".

 

[EzekielRaiden]

The problem IMO is the concept of the "adventuring day." What exactly is that supposed to be?

Any day during an adventure?
Any day with combat encounters?
Any day with any encounters?

Then there is the issue is an adventuring "day" actually a 24-hour ("day") period?
The (arbitrary) amount period of time in which you can take no more than one long rest?

Another issue is the (seemingly obsessive) desire for "balance" between the classes when it comes to encounters. I'm not saying things couldn't be a bit better, but I have found just making the story and having encounters whenever they are appropriate to the narrative creates the best game possible.

An adventuring day is the time between long rests. Whether that is 24 hours, 2 hours, a week, whatever.

 

[Scott Christian]

I would say that 6 to 8 medium and hard encounters at 5th level in a single session is not only achievable, but relatively easy in a 4-hour session. Which is not to say that a session is the equivalent of an adventuring day. But my group regularly hits that many encounters in a given session. If one can't do that, it's probably related to time management issues like players deciding what to do, resolving turns, and getting distracted with things outside the game.

The only thing I can say to this is prove it. I have asked countless times for video proof of a table doing this - I have never seen it happen. I have watched shows where people play D&D - it never happens. I have spent countless hours at a dozen different cons watching, playing and running tables that have four-hour sessions - it never happens. And heaven forbid you go above fifth level!

Maybe, just maybe, first level. But even then, I am skeptical.

So, if you have conclusive evidence, I honestly and earnestly want to see it. Because in my experience (and apparently every show and everyone I have ever played with across three states) no one has been able to do it.

 

[Scott Christian]

So session duration has exactly nothing to do with the adventuring day. You can run a four hour session and only go through 30 minutes of the adventuring day. You could repeat that 47 more times if you want and take 48 weeks of once a week 4 hour sessions to go though one adventuring day if you really wanted to. I rather think you could fit 6-8 combat encounters, a half dozen social ones and 15 exploration encounters in 48 four hour sessions if you wanted.

Or lower it to two hour sessions and go through the day in 6 once a week sessions. One encounter a week and you're at 6 for that adventuring day.

I would argue that it does. They are intrinsically tied to one another from a gaming/DM/player standpoint. (This is an in person game, not some online forum game where people post once a week.)

This is a different and unlike the above concern, a real issue of the adventuring day. That's why if you want to preserve the game balance of party vs. creatures AND the game balance between classes(spellcasters and martials), you should move to the alternative rest rules and only have one long rest per week. It's still narratively nonsensical, but it's the lesser evil between 6-8 encounters in a 24 period, unbalancing the game in favor of certain classes and the PCs in general and having a balanced game where rests don't make sense narratively.

We agree. I find it odd how you can say this, yet directly prior, be dismissive that table time and game time are tied to one another. If a wizard only gets to cast one spell a session, and a fighter only gets to attack one time a session, then there is absolutely no way the DM is keeping track of resources. Especially if they play once every two weeks. So, it doesn't matter if there are twenty encounters in an adventuring day.

 

[Scott Christian]

A [game session] is NOT an [adventuring day].

If you're going to 'auto ping' a resource refresh at the end of a game session, with your encounter frequency make it a short rest instead.

Give them a long rest at the end of every third session.

I have a very clear understanding that the two are not the same. They are, however, tied to one another. The bottom of my quote, that you left off, implies it very clearly.

 

[overgeeked]

So I keep hearing how the best way to balance the game is a 6-8 encounter adventuring day for every adventuring day... putting aside that I feel that is way too gamest and unrealistic...

It is on both counts.

does this mean combat? or does it mean all 3 pillars?

In theory, all three. In reality, they mean combat encounters. It’s how they balanced spells and abilities...99% of which are combat focused.

I think about it and the fighter does his best work in fights. so if it really was meant to balance the casters it would almost HAVE to have more combat then anything else.

You’re absolutely meant to have 6-8 medium combat encounters per long rest. It’s why fights are ridiculously easy if you have anything less than that. PCs have more resources per fight and so can blow away the monsters easier.

It’s a ridiculous balance point, but that’s what the designers did. The best solution is to do fewer, bigger fights so there’s still some semblance of balance and verisimilitude.

 

[Maxperson]

I think it is worth noting that the balance that is being preserved in the 6 to 8 encounters per day paradigm is intra party class balance which is a subject of passionate attention by a substantial group here but not, I suspect, something that the wider audience cares about.

It's more than that. It's also balance vs. the game, because the ability to go nova makes encounters that won't TPK you pretty easy unless the DM goes out of his way not to kill PCs and/or play the monsters intelligently.