70% is the Sweet, ain't it?
- Thread starter Frostmarrow
- Start date
AFGNCAAP
First Post
A 20+ is possible with a 1st-level PC with the wealth & resources.
Either the chain shirt (100 gp) & 18 Dex or a breastplate (200 gp) & 16 Dex will yield a +8 to AC. Throw in a heavy shield (+2), and that's 20.
However, there's the tower shield (which can be a manueverability problem), and the Shield Specialization feat (which increases the AC value of a shield by 1 for a character whose specialized with that kind of shield). That can boost the 20 to a 21 for a heavy shield wielder.
And, use Improved Shield Bash and other shield-fighting options, and the character could use the shield as a melee weapon & not concern themselves too much on having enough cash for a weapon in addition to armor & shields.
Either the chain shirt (100 gp) & 18 Dex or a breastplate (200 gp) & 16 Dex will yield a +8 to AC. Throw in a heavy shield (+2), and that's 20.
However, there's the tower shield (which can be a manueverability problem), and the Shield Specialization feat (which increases the AC value of a shield by 1 for a character whose specialized with that kind of shield). That can boost the 20 to a 21 for a heavy shield wielder.
And, use Improved Shield Bash and other shield-fighting options, and the character could use the shield as a melee weapon & not concern themselves too much on having enough cash for a weapon in addition to armor & shields.
Sure, it's possible (note that I'm not one of those who said it wasn't)...AFGNCAAP said:
But this statement:
remains a bit inaccurate.Frostmarrow said:
This feat isn't necessarily available to everyone (there are people who don't use the PH2).AFGNCAAP said:
In any case, this has probably been driven into the ground. AC 20+ is possible at level 1, though it takes wealth and/or other resources. It's not, however, common enough to use as the standard expected AC for a 1st-level fighter, and it's highly unlikely for any non-fighter to have at 1st level.
Frostmarrow
First Post
Allright I admit AC in the low twenties is somewhat rare for a starting 1st level fighter but I've got some substance to my argument that the AC (whatever it is) is greater than the to hit bonus. When it should be (sweet spot-wise) 4 points lower. AC 18 is 4 points greater than a to hit bonus of +4. Glad we got that sorted out. 
I'm sorry I can't remember where I read the bit about computer game studies. I'll try to find it - and if I do I'll return with that info.
I'm sorry I can't remember where I read the bit about computer game studies. I'll try to find it - and if I do I'll return with that info.
Wulf Ratbane
Adventurer
Generally speaking 70% seems way too high for my tastes-- at least, as the baseline.
From a design standpoint I'd prefer 50% to be the baseline, meaning BAB should track about even with AC, with the additional +4 to hit (if necessary) made up from good play: flanking, aid another, spending an action point, etc.
But out and out hitting on a 7+? Not in my game.
From a design standpoint I'd prefer 50% to be the baseline, meaning BAB should track about even with AC, with the additional +4 to hit (if necessary) made up from good play: flanking, aid another, spending an action point, etc.
But out and out hitting on a 7+? Not in my game.
The designers already stated that they want the success rate to be about 50% at all levels.
However, I suspect that this means that when a Fighter adds all of his offensive Feats and Talents and Magic Items, etc., he will often be in the 70% range for melee whereas the Wizard will be in the 30% range for melee attacks.
For same level opponents.
The Ranger/Rogue might be in the 50% range for melee, but the Ranger might be in the 70% range for missile weapons. Hence, given a choice between melee and missile, the Ranger PC will often opt for missile attacks.
However, oppnents will typically not have the proliferation of magic items that PCs will have. Even if WotC minimizes the Christmas Tree effect, whatever ratio they have of magic items to level, the PCs will almost always have more magic items than NPCs. Otherwise the PCs will get the Christmas Tree effect.
So the PCs should, theoretically, have a higher chance to hit NPCs than NPCs have to hit PCs for same level NPCs.
With regard to armor, I'm hoping for a system where armor is actually subtracted from Reflex Defense, but adds in as DR. In heavy armor, one would be really easy to hit, but take hardly any damage.
For example:
AC = 10 + Dex + Level - 1/2 Armor
To Hit = Str + Level (i.e. BAB)
DR = Armor
So if Plate mail is Armor +8 like in 3.5, a same level opponent with same Str as the Fighter has Dex hits on a 6, but subtracts 8 points of damage from the damage. Sure, the Fighter gets hit a lot, but he often comes out of fights with a couple of scratches.
I'd also like to see DR allow for a minimum of 1 point of damage on every hit.
However, I suspect that this means that when a Fighter adds all of his offensive Feats and Talents and Magic Items, etc., he will often be in the 70% range for melee whereas the Wizard will be in the 30% range for melee attacks.
For same level opponents.
The Ranger/Rogue might be in the 50% range for melee, but the Ranger might be in the 70% range for missile weapons. Hence, given a choice between melee and missile, the Ranger PC will often opt for missile attacks.
However, oppnents will typically not have the proliferation of magic items that PCs will have. Even if WotC minimizes the Christmas Tree effect, whatever ratio they have of magic items to level, the PCs will almost always have more magic items than NPCs. Otherwise the PCs will get the Christmas Tree effect.
So the PCs should, theoretically, have a higher chance to hit NPCs than NPCs have to hit PCs for same level NPCs.
With regard to armor, I'm hoping for a system where armor is actually subtracted from Reflex Defense, but adds in as DR. In heavy armor, one would be really easy to hit, but take hardly any damage.
For example:
AC = 10 + Dex + Level - 1/2 Armor
To Hit = Str + Level (i.e. BAB)
DR = Armor
So if Plate mail is Armor +8 like in 3.5, a same level opponent with same Str as the Fighter has Dex hits on a 6, but subtracts 8 points of damage from the damage. Sure, the Fighter gets hit a lot, but he often comes out of fights with a couple of scratches.
I'd also like to see DR allow for a minimum of 1 point of damage on every hit.
