9th Level Spell Foresight: Useless?

[TheGogmagog]

The problem with Foresight in 3.x D&D is that everything must be written in "D&D legalese", specifiying the exact effects that the spell creates. Now, I'm not arguing whether this is good or bad, only that Foresight's flavor text does not specify effects in accordance with the "legalese". To make Foresight a worthy 9th-level spell, one must look at the flavor text and extrapolate possible effects, other than the meager effects already provided. I would recommend looking at the spell moment of prescience, which is similar to Foresight, but only lasts for a single moment. How about the caster of Foresight gains a +8 bonus to one save, attack, or to AC every round? I might also grant the evasion ability.

Thats exactly what I thought when I read it. When does it give the information? The flavor text hints at a chance to react and to warn others. So does the caster recieve notice of any attacks that will be directed at him and area effects that will affect him before he acts each round? Or is it as the leagalese does say, he gets AC bonuses, but not an actual action?

If I were DMing, I would have it grant the flat footed feature, and possibly increased bonuses to AC and Saves.

 

[moritheil]

Previous discussions on this topic

Foresight: Worst 9th Level Spell?

and

Overpowered/Underpowered Spells?

IIRC those earlier discussions basically boiled down to 'it depends on how your DM wants to run it". If you have a DM who is sympathetic towards the spell it is great, if not, it is virtually useless.

You might find those threads entertaining reading.

Cheers

You, sir or madam, are my hero.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

I would adjudicate it as the Wizard always acts first in the Surprise round. Always. If there is no Surprise round, then the Wizard surprises everyone else automatically.

That is not a small bonus considering the power of the spells at the Wizard's command.

(If there are competing Wizard's with Foresight up, they roll Initiative.)

 

[the Jester]

I would adjudicate it as the Wizard always acts first in the Surprise round. Always. If there is no Surprise round, then the Wizard surprises everyone else automatically.

That is not a small bonus considering the power of the spells at the Wizard's command.

(If there are competing Wizard's with Foresight up, they roll Initiative.)

Interesting approach.

In my campaign, Angel of Adventure's pc and his cohort are typically always under the influence of dual foresight spells. Whenever I get the gleeful killer dm look on my face after he says something like, "I open the door," he instantly says, "Does my foresight go off first?" Er, yeah, AoA, it does. :\ "Hey, hold on then- everyone buff up first! There's something bad behind here..."

Sigh. Damn diviners, spoil more of my deadly traps...

 

[Whimsical]

A player could do the same with a wand of Augury.

 

[Angel of Adventure]

Yeah, Weal or Woe via Augury is good, but it takes 1 minute to get an answer and you must word the question properly. Foresight is more direct and instantaneous. I do like the way Jester runs it, but it could be a more valuable spell if it lasted longer or gave some save/armor bonuses.

I guess I agree with several of you: it is completely flavor, nearly unquantifiable in effect, and you need to hope your DM has a good idea of what it will do. Jester's been fair with it (so far) and its definately kept my goose from being cooked many, many times.

 

[kigmatzomat]

I don't see how this spell is not worded to provide a clear bonus, at least in the 3.0 SRD.


Foresight
Range: Personal or touch Target: See text
Duration: 10 minutes/level Saving Throw: None or Will negates (harmless)
Spell Resistance: No or Yes (harmless)

This spell grants the character a powerful sixth sense in relation to his or herself or another. Once the spell is cast, the character receives instantaneous warnings of impending danger or harm to the subject of the spell. The character is never surprised or flat-footed. In addition, the spell gives the character a general idea of what action the character might take to best protect him or herself - duck, jump right, close the eyes, and so on—and gives the character a +2 insight bonus to AC and to Reflex saves. This insight bonus is lost whenever the character would lose a Dexterity bonus to AC.

When another creature is the object of the spell, the character receives warnings about that creature. The character must communicate what the characters learn to the other creature for the warning to be useful, and it can be caught unprepared in the absence of such a warning. Shouting a warning, yanking a person back, and even telepathically communicating (via an appropriate spell) can all be accomplished before some danger befalls the spell subject, provided the character acts on the warning without delay. The subject, however, does not gain the insight bonus to AC and Reflex saves.


Seems to me that having a minimum of 170 minutes where you are never surprised, flat footed, have a +2 insight bonus to AC and saves (that can pretty much only be revoked by flanking or being tied up) and have an idea on the best immediate course of action is a pretty sweet spell.

 

[Snowy]

think the bit people are discussing is the bit concerning what best course of action or however its phrased actually means. As in a warning a round in advance or two or three minutes or as you cast it and how much information you should get and what format it should be in.

but yes with any good DM that knows the spell it is very very cool.

 

[TheGogmagog]

Seems to me that having a minimum of 170 minutes where you are never surprised, flat footed, have a +2 insight bonus to AC and saves (that can pretty much only be revoked by flanking or being tied up) and have an idea on the best immediate course of action is a pretty sweet spell.

From the first paragraph the warning is instantaneous, allowing ONLY the listed insight bonus and never suprised or flat footed. You DON'T get to change course or perform any action. Jester seems to be stretching this portion.

It becomes ambiguous in the second paragraph that begins to hint at an opportunity to act. If the warning is still immediate it is presumably the attackers turn, you have no actions to take. If it is on your turn preceeding the attack (and possible the targets turn also) you create a paradox with the chance to change the course. (IE, lets not open the door untill we buff up). I would rather it work the same for casting it on other people (with them recieving the instantanious insight), than having it be either more powerfull or useless when cast on another.

 

[Diirk]

From the first paragraph the warning is instantaneous, allowing ONLY the listed insight bonus and never suprised or flat footed. You DON'T get to change course or perform any action. Jester seems to be stretching this portion.

"In addition, the spell gives the character a general idea of what action the character might take to best protect him or herself - duck, jump right, close the eyes, and so on—and gives the character a +2 insight bonus to AC and to Reflex saves. This insight bonus is lost whenever the character would lose a Dexterity bonus to AC."

So it tells you what to do to protect yourself AND gives the insight bonus. I'm not quite sure how you translated that into "only give the insight bonus and ignore the first half of the sentence".

For example, if you walk into a room with a Bodak (they have a death gaze), you'd likely get a warning saying 'close your eyes' in addition to the mechanical bonuses. How much of a warning you get in differing situations is subject to DM interpretation tho, so different games can give this spell wildly different power levels.