A 4th encounter type: role-play dilemmas?

[Quickleaf]

Combat, puzzles/traps, skill challenges and....

RP Dilemmas?

One of the feature in the games I run are turning point decisions the PCs make. These are difficult dilemmas ranging from handling a plague crisis to deciding which NPC to trust.

Is this worthy of being considered an encounter? One PCs earn experience for?

I'm leaning toward "yes", and here's why:

* tension and urgency are created by the need to reach inter-party consensus
* strategically, the players try to anticipate the consequences of their actions, how much to risk and the potential rewards
* there is no "wrong" or "right" choice, but depending on their goals the PCs can experience a degree of failure

OTOH the rules of the game don't factor in and there isn't much dice-rolling. Depending on the situation, the DM's input may also be minimal once the dilemma is presented.

So what do you think? Would you consider this an XP worthy encounter type in your game?

 

[the Jester]

First of all, I'd say that puzzles and traps are separate types of encounters.

Yes, sometimes a roleplaying dilemma should be worth xp, but imho only if there is a real risk of and consequence for failure.

 

[Mort]

Combat, puzzles/traps, skill challenges and....

RP Dilemmas?

One of the feature in the games I run are turning point decisions the PCs make. These are difficult dilemmas ranging from handling a plague crisis to deciding which NPC to trust.

Is this worthy of being considered an encounter? One PCs earn experience for?

I'm leaning toward "yes", and here's why:

* tension and urgency are created by the need to reach inter-party consensus
* strategically, the players try to anticipate the consequences of their actions, how much to risk and the potential rewards
* there is no "wrong" or "right" choice, but depending on their goals the PCs can experience a degree of failure

OTOH the rules of the game don't factor in and there isn't much dice-rolling. Depending on the situation, the DM's input may also be minimal once the dilemma is presented.

So what do you think? Would you consider this an XP worthy encounter type in your game?

IMO Roleplaying dilemas are absoultely XP worthy - moreso because the PCs can't roll their way out of them! Further, when granted xp for these kind of situations, the PCs will likely consider them carefuly leading to an overall bettter game (as opposed to autopilot between combats, for example). In my games previous session (Eberron campaign) the PCs feretted out the traitor on the Deneith garrison (in Thaliost) strictly through roleplaying (with discussions with the garrison, cityfolk etc. and lots of thinking and reasoning) I gave them more xp for the roleplaying than the combat encounter they had that night because the roleplaying really expanded the plot, both at that point and for future adventures. Everyone was quite happy about it, and I believe they certainly deserved the xp.

 

[pemerton]

For these sorts of situations, I use the DMG2 guidelines - one monster's worth of XP per 15 minutes play - plus liberal use of quest awards.

 

[NewJeffCT]

Combat, puzzles/traps, skill challenges and....

RP Dilemmas?

One of the feature in the games I run are turning point decisions the PCs make. These are difficult dilemmas ranging from handling a plague crisis to deciding which NPC to trust.

Is this worthy of being considered an encounter? One PCs earn experience for?

I'm leaning toward "yes", and here's why:

* tension and urgency are created by the need to reach inter-party consensus
* strategically, the players try to anticipate the consequences of their actions, how much to risk and the potential rewards
* there is no "wrong" or "right" choice, but depending on their goals the PCs can experience a degree of failure

OTOH the rules of the game don't factor in and there isn't much dice-rolling. Depending on the situation, the DM's input may also be minimal once the dilemma is presented.

So what do you think? Would you consider this an XP worthy encounter type in your game?

I think it would be 100% certain for me that you can give out XP for role playing dilemmas.

I had posted some R/P situations within combat a few weeks back. If the players managed to get through these situations, I would award them a good amount of XP for coming out of these encounters okay.
>>>

1) PCs strike a slaver's caravan, with the intent of freeing a just captured local noble. Then, seeing that they (the slavers) are losing the combat, a hidden slaver ducks into the wagon and pulls out the captured noble (bound & gagged) and shouts out an order, "Drop your weapons, or Duke Dunderhead gets it!" And, he readies an action to apply a coup-de-gras to the helpless Duke. I would imagine some role-playing could come into play there. Do the players lay down their arms? Do they continue the attack, hoping that magic can revive the dead/dying Duke after his throat is slashed? Do they do something else? Do they even care about the fate of the Duke that deeply? Is the loss of the Duke okay if they save the other prisoners?

2) A paladin has been going along for several levels, and undertaking missions to obtain various items on behalf of his goodly lord. The other players have gone along with him, as the missions have been profitable for them as well. Then, the PCs come upon a small town being overrun by undead - they start to combat the horde of undead when the paladin is commanded to stop by his lord, who suddenly appears. However, the lord is now bedecked in dark garb befitting an evil cleric of undead rebuking... what does the paladin say? What does the paladin (and his friends) do when his lord tells him that all those missions helped him create a powerful evil artifact?

3) The novice players are summoned to the home of a local wizard on the outskirts of town. The wizard is also a mentor to the PC wizard. As they round the corner, a colossal red dragon is there and has just laid waste to the wizard's home - only a few charred stones remain. The PC wizard knows that his mentor rarely left the house, so was likely inside... The dragon then turns on the terrified players, who are far too close to escape a flying dragon. What do they say in this situation?

 

[delericho]

I'm not sure I agree with your divisions. Firstly, puzzles and traps may be considered separate types of encounters. Secondly, I'm not sure a Skill Challenge is really a type of encounter - is it not a means by which an encounter may be resolved (and so applicable to some traps or some RP encounters)?

However, leaving that aside, I certainly agree that an RP dilemma certainly could be considered an encounter type. Especially if you set it up so there is no 'right' solution, but rather a set of choices for the PCs to make that then have ongoing consequences going forward.

If using the 'standard' means of giving XP, I would only give XP for an RP dilemma if it had both a meaningful chance of success and a meaningful cost to the PCs. Otherwise, it's just a freebie.

That said, I wouldn't use the standard 4e XP system anyway - my inclination would be to just have the PCs level up after a few sessions. Makes it easier to pace things!

 

[Ryujin]

I don't reward things like role-play of ethical dilemmas with experience points. I reserve those for the doling-out of non XP rewards. You gain a friend, contact, benefactor, etc.. Conversely choosing poorly can result in gainging an enemy. To my mind role-playing sessions result in role-playing rewards and penalties.

 

[Quickleaf]

First of all, I'd say that puzzles and traps are separate types of encounters.

I'm not sure I agree with your divisions. Firstly, puzzles and traps may be considered separate types of encounters.

Yeah, I concede that they're different. I use lots of puzzle-trap hybrids IMC, which is why I lumped them together initially.

For these sorts of situations, I use the DMG2 guidelines - one monster's worth of XP per 15 minutes play - plus liberal use of quest awards.

I definitely use quest awards quite a bit. The "XP per 15 minutes" thing is interesting but what about situations where the plot weight of the situation doesn't correspond with the amount of time spent on it? Not that I have an answer for an XP for RP metric...yet

Yes, sometimes a roleplaying dilemma should be worth xp, but imho only if there is a real risk of and consequence for failure.

If using the 'standard' means of giving XP, I would only give XP for an RP dilemma if it had both a meaningful chance of success and a meaningful cost to the PCs. Otherwise, it's just a freebie.

Is it fair for the long-term impact of decisions made during an RP dilemma to be delayed several sessions? Or does 'meaningful' success and 'real' risk imply immediate feedback or complete transparency of consequences?

I don't reward things like role-play of ethical dilemmas with experience points. I reserve those for the doling-out of non XP rewards. You gain a friend, contact, benefactor, etc.. Conversely choosing poorly can result in gainging an enemy. To my mind role-playing sessions result in role-playing rewards and penalties.

Sure, that makes sense. I also have roleplaying rewards and penalties in many other encounters I run, regardless if it's a combat, puzzle, skill challenge, trap, etc.

So my question is why should XP be exclusive to those later kinds of encounters and not to a roleplaying dilemma? *


* I am specifically talking about my first post describing a "role-playing dilemma", NOT role-playing in general.

 

[pemerton]

I definitely use quest awards quite a bit. The "XP per 15 minutes" thing is interesting but what about situations where the plot weight of the situation doesn't correspond with the amount of time spent on it?

I just use quest XP to make up the weight, which I'll admit is rough-and-ready.

For me, this fits with my more general view that XP in 4e aren't a reward-for-challenge metric but rather a pacing-PC-advancement-per-time-played metric.

As I like to have roleplaying dilemmas/situations as a strong focus for my game, they come up pretty often, and the quest XP thing then just increases the levelling-pace-per-time, which is something I've been trying to achieve anyway over the past year or so.

If you preferred XP to be a reward-for-challenge, with roleplaying dilemmas fitting under that broader heading, then I'd agree you might want something a bit less rough-and-ready.

 

[delericho]

Is it fair for the long-term impact of decisions made during an RP dilemma to be delayed several sessions? Or does 'meaningful' success and 'real' risk imply immediate feedback or complete transparency of consequences?

"I don't know; I'm making this up as I go along!"

I would think that it has to be immediately obvious that there are choices to be made in the encounter, and some notion of what the consequences of those choices will be (otherwise, they're just a shot in the dark, which isn't really a 'meaningful' choice). However, the full extent of the consequences need not be immediately apparent - indeed, it's probably better if they're not clear, thus leaving a strong element of risk.