Nail
First Post
That is: Dodo. As in: the now extinct bird from the south Indian Ocean island of Mauritius ?buzzard said:
...or, as in "Doo doo", that your cute white furry puppy might leave behind while on a walk?
A challenge (or two)
- Thread starter buzzard
- Start date
...or, as in "Doo doo", that your cute white furry puppy might leave behind while on a walk?
IcyCool
First Post
Ok, let's take it piece by piece:
As the War Troll is a monstrous humanoid, you CAN apply the Monster of Legend template to it, so you're good there.
A War Troll's CR is 12. The Monster of Legend Template (MoL) adds +2 (unless there is errata that I don't know). Adding 3 levels of Monk (assuming you feel it is an associated class), makes that 17. War Trolls advance by character class, so looks like this part is fine.
A War Troll has 12d8 Hit Dice + 3d8 for Monk Levels + (Con mod * 15).
A War Troll has a Con of 29, and Monster of Legend adds +10 to that, for a total Con of 39 (a +14 mod). So, 14 * 15 = 210. (You have the creature's Con listed incorrectly as 38).
I believe that the MM uses the average HD roll, so your monster's hp should be 67.5 (round down) + 210 = 277.
So that's correct.
A War Troll has a 16 Dex (+3 mod), and Monster of Legend adds +6 to that, for 22 Dex (+6 mod). This creature has Gloves of Dexterity +2, for a final Dex of 24 (+7 mod). The War Troll has improved initiative(+4), so we have a total of +11. (You have the creature's Dex listed incorrectly at 28).
A War Troll's base speed is 40ft. I assume the additional +10 is from being a 3rd level monk.
So aside from the Dex issue, we're good here.
Your creature has the following modifiers to AC:
-1 (for Large Size)
+14 (Natural Armor (War Troll))
+7 (24 Dex)
+4 (15 base Wisdom + 2 from MoL + 2 from Periapt of Wisdom = 19 (+4 mod))
+5 (Natural Armor (MoL))
+3 (Bracers of Armor +3)
+2 (Ring of Protection +2)
= 44, touch 22, Flat footed 33
A War Troll Monk 3 has a BAB of +14.
Your creatures grapple check has the following modifiers:
+4 (Large creature)
+4 (Improved Grapple)
+14 (BAB)
+15 (41 Str, you have the creature's strength listed incorrectly as 42)
= 37
Your creature has the following attack modifiers:
+14 (BAB)
+15 (41 Str)
+1 (Weapon Focus Claw)
= 30
And you deal 1d8+15 damage.
Your Full Attack Line should read as follows:
Full Attack: 2 claws +30 melee (1d8+15) and bite +27 melee (1d6+7); or masterwork composite longbow +22/17/12 (2d6+10/x3)
I'm assuming you are still using the Longbow that comes with the War Troll (a +10 Str mod mighty bow). If so, you should add it to the creatures equipment.
You could also add your unarmed strikes in this line, and as long as you aren't flurrying, you could get 3 unarmed strikes with full strength bonus and 2 claws and a bite as secondary natural attacks (-2 on attack bonus and + 0.5*Str bonus).
So your Full Attack could look like this:
Full Attack: Unarmed Strike +29/+24/+19 melee (1d8+15) and 2 claws +28 melee (1d8+7) and bite +27 melee (1d6+7)
This one is correct.
The DC for Dazing Blow is correct, but the DC for Frightful presence is 10 + 1/2 HD (15/2 = 7.5, rounded down) + Cha mod. So the DC = 10 + 7 + 2 = 19.
You should also list Flurry of Blows here, if you want to remember it.
DR 5/adamantine, darkvision 90ft., low-light vision, regeneration 9, scent, SR 20 all come from the War Troll, and are correct.
Evasion and still mind come from Monk, and are correct.
You get two special qualities from MoL, and you chose Reflective Hide (spell turning) and Immunities. Immunities grants you immunity to two of the listed effects, not just one. You chose acid as one, and (provided there is no errata on the subject) you may choose one more from the following list:
electricity, fear, poison, polymorphing, or mind-affecting effects.
Your creature has the following mods to its saves:
Fort: +14 (Con) + 3 (Monk) + 3 (MoL) + 4 (War Troll base) = 24
Ref: +7 (Dex) + 3 (Monk) + 3 (MoL) + 8 (War Troll base) = 21
Will: +4 (Wis) + 3 (Monk) + 3 (MoL) + 2 (Iron Will) + 8 (War Troll base) = 20
I assume that the Cloak of Protection you list is actually a Cloak of Resistance +3? If so, add 3 to each of those for a final Fort +27, Ref +24, Will +23.
A 15 HD War Troll Monster of Legend with the listed gear has the following Ability Scores:
Str: 31 (war troll) +10 (MoL) = 41
Dex: 16 (war troll) +6 (MoL) +2 (gloves of dex +2) = 24
Con: 29 (war troll) +10 (MoL) = 39
Int: 8 (war troll) +2 (MoL) = 10
Wis: 15 (war troll) +2 (MoL) +2 (periapt of wisdom +2) = 19
Cha: 10 (war troll) +4 (MoL) = 14
A War Troll starts with the following skills and modifiers:
Listen: +2 (Wis) +2 (Alertness) +7 ranks
Spot: +2 (Wis) +2 (Alertness) +8 ranks
Your new stats bring those up to:
Listen: +4 (Wis) +2 (Alertness) +7 ranks = 13
Spot: +4 (Wis) +2 (Alertness) +8 ranks = 14
Your Monk levels will get you 12 skill points to spend ((4+0 (int mod))*3 = 12) on monk class skills. You have spent far too many ranks on skills, including Knowledge(History), which is a cross-class skill.
A War Troll starts with the following feats:
Alertness, Improved Initiative, Iron Will, Multiattack, Weapon Focus (you've chosen claw instead of greatsword)
Monk gets you Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Grapple, and Combat Reflexes.
MoL gives you Improved Initiative and Multiattack as bonus feats (I'm not sure if you are allowed to take different feats if you already have these. I suppose you could say that this War Troll had two other feats instead of Imp. Init and Multiattack.
Your 15th HD gets you one feat.
You have Power Attack, Acrobatic, and Hold the Line. If we assume you swapped around the War Trolls beginning feats for Power Attack and Acrobatic, your 15th HD feat would be Hold the Line and everything is ok.
War Trolls are listed as usually LE in alignment.
Equipment for a 17th level NPC (CR 17) is 100,000gp
Your creatures gear comes to 35,400gp
buzzard said:
As the War Troll is a monstrous humanoid, you CAN apply the Monster of Legend template to it, so you're good there.
A War Troll's CR is 12. The Monster of Legend Template (MoL) adds +2 (unless there is errata that I don't know). Adding 3 levels of Monk (assuming you feel it is an associated class), makes that 17. War Trolls advance by character class, so looks like this part is fine.
buzzard said:
A War Troll has 12d8 Hit Dice + 3d8 for Monk Levels + (Con mod * 15).
A War Troll has a Con of 29, and Monster of Legend adds +10 to that, for a total Con of 39 (a +14 mod). So, 14 * 15 = 210. (You have the creature's Con listed incorrectly as 38).
I believe that the MM uses the average HD roll, so your monster's hp should be 67.5 (round down) + 210 = 277.
So that's correct.
buzzard said:
A War Troll has a 16 Dex (+3 mod), and Monster of Legend adds +6 to that, for 22 Dex (+6 mod). This creature has Gloves of Dexterity +2, for a final Dex of 24 (+7 mod). The War Troll has improved initiative(+4), so we have a total of +11. (You have the creature's Dex listed incorrectly at 28).
A War Troll's base speed is 40ft. I assume the additional +10 is from being a 3rd level monk.
So aside from the Dex issue, we're good here.
buzzard said:
Your creature has the following modifiers to AC:
-1 (for Large Size)
+14 (Natural Armor (War Troll))
+7 (24 Dex)
+4 (15 base Wisdom + 2 from MoL + 2 from Periapt of Wisdom = 19 (+4 mod))
+5 (Natural Armor (MoL))
+3 (Bracers of Armor +3)
+2 (Ring of Protection +2)
= 44, touch 22, Flat footed 33
buzzard said:
A War Troll Monk 3 has a BAB of +14.
Your creatures grapple check has the following modifiers:
+4 (Large creature)
+4 (Improved Grapple)
+14 (BAB)
+15 (41 Str, you have the creature's strength listed incorrectly as 42)
= 37
buzzard said:
Your creature has the following attack modifiers:
+14 (BAB)
+15 (41 Str)
+1 (Weapon Focus Claw)
= 30
And you deal 1d8+15 damage.
buzzard said:
Your Full Attack Line should read as follows:
Full Attack: 2 claws +30 melee (1d8+15) and bite +27 melee (1d6+7); or masterwork composite longbow +22/17/12 (2d6+10/x3)
I'm assuming you are still using the Longbow that comes with the War Troll (a +10 Str mod mighty bow). If so, you should add it to the creatures equipment.
You could also add your unarmed strikes in this line, and as long as you aren't flurrying, you could get 3 unarmed strikes with full strength bonus and 2 claws and a bite as secondary natural attacks (-2 on attack bonus and + 0.5*Str bonus).
So your Full Attack could look like this:
Full Attack: Unarmed Strike +29/+24/+19 melee (1d8+15) and 2 claws +28 melee (1d8+7) and bite +27 melee (1d6+7)
buzzard said:
This one is correct.
buzzard said:
The DC for Dazing Blow is correct, but the DC for Frightful presence is 10 + 1/2 HD (15/2 = 7.5, rounded down) + Cha mod. So the DC = 10 + 7 + 2 = 19.
You should also list Flurry of Blows here, if you want to remember it.
buzzard said:
DR 5/adamantine, darkvision 90ft., low-light vision, regeneration 9, scent, SR 20 all come from the War Troll, and are correct.
Evasion and still mind come from Monk, and are correct.
You get two special qualities from MoL, and you chose Reflective Hide (spell turning) and Immunities. Immunities grants you immunity to two of the listed effects, not just one. You chose acid as one, and (provided there is no errata on the subject) you may choose one more from the following list:
electricity, fear, poison, polymorphing, or mind-affecting effects.
buzzard said:
Your creature has the following mods to its saves:
Fort: +14 (Con) + 3 (Monk) + 3 (MoL) + 4 (War Troll base) = 24
Ref: +7 (Dex) + 3 (Monk) + 3 (MoL) + 8 (War Troll base) = 21
Will: +4 (Wis) + 3 (Monk) + 3 (MoL) + 2 (Iron Will) + 8 (War Troll base) = 20
I assume that the Cloak of Protection you list is actually a Cloak of Resistance +3? If so, add 3 to each of those for a final Fort +27, Ref +24, Will +23.
buzzard said:
A 15 HD War Troll Monster of Legend with the listed gear has the following Ability Scores:
Str: 31 (war troll) +10 (MoL) = 41
Dex: 16 (war troll) +6 (MoL) +2 (gloves of dex +2) = 24
Con: 29 (war troll) +10 (MoL) = 39
Int: 8 (war troll) +2 (MoL) = 10
Wis: 15 (war troll) +2 (MoL) +2 (periapt of wisdom +2) = 19
Cha: 10 (war troll) +4 (MoL) = 14
buzzard said:
A War Troll starts with the following skills and modifiers:
Listen: +2 (Wis) +2 (Alertness) +7 ranks
Spot: +2 (Wis) +2 (Alertness) +8 ranks
Your new stats bring those up to:
Listen: +4 (Wis) +2 (Alertness) +7 ranks = 13
Spot: +4 (Wis) +2 (Alertness) +8 ranks = 14
Your Monk levels will get you 12 skill points to spend ((4+0 (int mod))*3 = 12) on monk class skills. You have spent far too many ranks on skills, including Knowledge(History), which is a cross-class skill.
A War Troll starts with the following feats:
Alertness, Improved Initiative, Iron Will, Multiattack, Weapon Focus (you've chosen claw instead of greatsword)
Monk gets you Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Grapple, and Combat Reflexes.
MoL gives you Improved Initiative and Multiattack as bonus feats (I'm not sure if you are allowed to take different feats if you already have these. I suppose you could say that this War Troll had two other feats instead of Imp. Init and Multiattack.
Your 15th HD gets you one feat.
You have Power Attack, Acrobatic, and Hold the Line. If we assume you swapped around the War Trolls beginning feats for Power Attack and Acrobatic, your 15th HD feat would be Hold the Line and everything is ok.
buzzard said:
War Trolls are listed as usually LE in alignment.
Equipment for a 17th level NPC (CR 17) is 100,000gp
Your creatures gear comes to 35,400gp
Last edited:
IcyCool
First Post
rowport said:IcyCool-
Your editing-fu is strong, Icy-San. WOTC should hire you.
Sounds great! I could see to it that some good editing gets done, and then any errors I fail to catch can be lamented about by millions worldwide!
Wait....
I wouldn't mind it as a job, to be honest.
At any rate, is there errata on the claw and bite damage of the War Troll? It doesn't have the Improved Natural Attack feat, and the damage dice appear to have been switched (i.e. Large Claw damage is usually 1d6 and Large Bite damage is usually 1d8).
Patryn of Elvenshae
First Post
Hey, you're a monk with natural weapons.
So long as you aren't flurrying, you can freely mix your monk unarmed strikes with your natural weapon attacks.
So long as you aren't flurrying, you can freely mix your monk unarmed strikes with your natural weapon attacks.
buzzard
First Post
IcyCool said:
Please do, I'm evidently more of a lousy self proofreader than I imagined.
Geez, don't I look silly. Didn't realize that War Trolls are Monstrous Humanoids. I have other builds of this guy using other trolls for different levels, and for those he doesn't work since he's a giant when he's other types of troll.
buzzard
buzzard
First Post
IcyCool said:
In my defense, you are wrong here. If you add PC class levels to a monster you use the elite stat array instead of the 10 and 11 one. You use a spread of 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8.
I used the elite block as follows:
12 str
14 dex
10 con
13 wis
15 Int
8 chr
Add in the bonuses for war trol and we get:
32 Str
20 Dex
28 con
17 wis
13 Int
8 Chr
Add in monster of legend
42 Str
26 dex
38 Con
19 wis
15 Int
12 Chr
Add the stat boosting items:
42 Str
28 Dex
38 Con
21 Wis
15 Int
12 Chr
So it looks like I screwed up the wisdom.
Also before you slay the skills, keep in mind I built the troll not using the base creature and adding, but leveling the base creature from 1 HD. Thus I picked my own selection of skills and feats.
buzzard
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