A Character Not Needed

Thanks!

A bunch of excellent ideas guys thanks. The DM has already vetoed Marshall though, not sure why but I believe he thinks its overpowered. My current list of ideas are:

Goliath druid (maybe with racial substitution levels in races of stone)/stonespeaker guardian (RoS)
Human or Gnome druid/Master of many forms
Gnome Cleric/Divine Prankster
Gnome Socerer/Fatespinner (maybe throwing some wand wielding feats on there)
Human Wiz with wand making and wielding feats
Some race warmage (was thinking a monster race maybe)
Orc Spirit Shaman
and last but not least a Human Warlock
 

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Bard/Warchanter would be really effective. You can eventually use two bardsongs at once... so you could buff their hitpoints, damage, and attack bonus all at once.

Eventually, you get an ability to raise everybody's bab to the highest in the group. You can do all this while fighting (preferably with a ranged weapon)
 

Personally I would choose a Bard or a Wizard/Loremaster. It looks like they could use some knowledge. For race you should choose something with darkvision. Either Gnome or Dwarf, for the classes mentioned. I really like player dwarven wizards. They are great fun, IMO, and very resillient :)
 



A simple human, half-orc, elf, or dwarf druid with various Wild feats and such can be pretty effective and versatile. Learn to make the most of Wild Shape and various druid spells, use Wild feats and the feat that lets you cast while Wild Shaped, and take some general-purpose feats like Lightning Reflexes, Improved Initiative, Combat Reflexes, or something. Druids are masters of information-gathering, exploration, and burning stuff. :) Could be rather useful. A half-orc or dwarf druid could be fun to play. Emphasize mental stats and maybe Constitution when assigning ability scores, and rely on Wild Shape forms with Greater Magic Fang when you need to fight in melee. Druids can use Produce Flame, Heat Metal, Chill Metal, Flame Strike, and such for ranged combat when needed.

Some of the character concepts you mentioned just don't seem to me like they would mesh well with the group-as-described, or with the type of campaign (dungeoneering and investigation). Goliaths are overpowered anyway from what I've heard, and some of those races you mentioned would probably be counterproductive when trying to deal in town, where folks would be intimidated, disgusted, or frightened by the character's race. Druids eventually gain A Thousand Faces anyway, which allows them to mimic the appearance of various humanoids at will. Might not want to out-shine the rest of the group in combat, or you might get a rude reception or something, and some of your concepts look like they'd pretty much be geared towards annihilating stuff quickly rather than working with the team or roleplaying. The Shifter prestige class (apparently renamed Master of Many Forms?) is quite capable of breaking the game or at the very least presenting a whole slew of problems and challenges to the DM that will make his job far more difficult than it should be (and much more trouble than it's worth). Likely why he didn't approve of that concept when you first presented it.

Prestige classes are entirely up to the DM as to whether or not they will be allowed. Anyone who thinks that the DM should allow just anything printed in a WotC book, without reservation or consideration of the campaign setting or the other players, is a clueless fool. I've seen many a game dominated and ruined by one obnoxious or cheesy player who used some prestige class, feat, or spell from a supplement that was just entirely too overpowered, abusive, or complicated for the DM to handle. I limit the PrCs available in my game based on what's appropriate to the campaign setting I use, and according to my experiences and analysis of the material as to how fair it is or how difficult it may be for me to account for in the game.
 

TheLostSoul said:
Wizard/Loremaster. It looks like they could use some knowledge. For race you should choose something with darkvision.(. . .) Dwarf, for the classes mentioned. I really like player dwarven wizards. They are great fun, IMO, and very resillient :)


Dwarf Wizard/Loremaster would be my choice, also. Key on the crafting aspect and see if he'll allow you to convert some of your assumed wealth (10th-level?) into items already made and stored, at a lower cost since you're making them. Make yourself the natural go-to-guy for any information (use your divination requirements and make some scrying items and such), both for the other player characters and for the DM. It seems like you'll need some way to get a foothold among this group of "core; and they'll let ya know it" gamers.
 

Arkhandus said:
Some of the character concepts you mentioned just don't seem to me like they would mesh well with the group-as-described, or with the type of campaign (dungeoneering and investigation). Goliaths are overpowered anyway from what I've heard, and some of those races you mentioned would probably be counterproductive when trying to deal in town, where folks would be intimidated, disgusted, or frightened by the character's race. Druids eventually gain A Thousand Faces anyway, which allows them to mimic the appearance of various humanoids at will. Might not want to out-shine the rest of the group in combat, or you might get a rude reception or something, and some of your concepts look like they'd pretty much be geared towards annihilating stuff quickly rather than working with the team or roleplaying. The Shifter prestige class (apparently renamed Master of Many Forms?) is quite capable of breaking the game or at the very least presenting a whole slew of problems and challenges to the DM that will make his job far more difficult than it should be (and much more trouble than it's worth). Likely why he didn't approve of that concept when you first presented it.

I'm actually playing a goliath character right now. They only ability they truly get that could be considered over powered is the fact that they get Power Build. But being the ONLY truly effective ability and the ability not coming with reach, I think the loss of a level evens that out.

If I was to go with an orc or monster race I felt it would add something to the blandness of the group. Lets be honest the only reason people take human as a race is because they are mechnically the best with their extra skill points and extra starting feat. A little discomfort or difficulty can add a lot of roleplaying options.

I think the shifter is fairly balanced for two reasons: One, you don't recieve anymore wild shapes per day after taking the class so you have to be pretty high level to take it effectively (Druid seventh, for powergamers that may seem low but most of the games I'm in don't go past ninth or tenth level) and second: you stop getting druid spells. As it being disruptive or obnoxious I don't think thats really fair. If you can shapeshift effectively you can fill nearly any role but not outshine anyone.

Arkhandus said:
Prestige classes are entirely up to the DM as to whether or not they will be allowed. Anyone who thinks that the DM should allow just anything printed in a WotC book, without reservation or consideration of the campaign setting or the other players, is a clueless fool. I've seen many a game dominated and ruined by one obnoxious or cheesy player who used some prestige class, feat, or spell from a supplement that was just entirely too overpowered, abusive, or complicated for the DM to handle. I limit the PrCs available in my game based on what's appropriate to the campaign setting I use, and according to my experiences and analysis of the material as to how fair it is or how difficult it may be for me to account for in the game.

This I agree with, funny enough the DM for this game saw this thread and told me last night about it. He felt a few people were getting rather...hostile over the subject and we both had a good laugh. I think the DM always has the last word and I have no problem with them going yes or no. Though I do like a DM to tell me WHY they don't like it, if anything that'll help me avoid asking for things in the future that will again be disapproved.
 

Plane Sailing said:
Whyever do something like that? Prestige classes are a tool of the DM, not a tool of the player. There is nothing that says any DM has to allow *any* prestige class.

You're right; it is the DM's call on whether to allow any prestige class in his game. My beef is with DMs who would veto anything without a reason. As a player and DM of over 15 years, I've run a show where pretty much anything goes, and if it didn't go, I worked with the players until it did. To have a DM smack my ideas aside without a reason other than "because" would really make me wonder what kind of a DM he is. This is all personal preference, of course... YMMV.
 

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