A couple of questions regarding two psionic powers

[Rystil Arden]

It depends on a few things, such as when in the previous level they get polymorphed and the DM's rules on levelling up. None of which is clearly defined in the DMG as has already been stated several times. There's a reasonable likelihood that the 'someone' becomes an NPC and the question becomes moot.

What if he was Polymorphed permanently via Baleful Polymorph (which does have those rules) into a cat, and he kept his personality. Can he take Multiattack with his Claw/Claw/Bite routine? INA: Claw?

Sure. Now, tell me why this question is pertinent.

You stated that it doesn't make sense for the Fighter to be able to gain a feat if he only met the prerequisites for only a few minutes just before he levels up. But what if that is exactly what happens? What if he's had 10 Strength from permanent drain for the entire level and only minutes before levelling up had it restored? Doesn't that violate your paradigm? What if he was from a race that has natural claw attacks, but he was tortured and had his claws chopped off, leaving with no natural claw attacks, but then he received a Regenerate spell minutes before levelling up?

 

[Infiniti2000]

What if he was Polymorphed permanently via Baleful Polymorph (which does have those rules) into a cat, and he kept his personality. Can he take Multiattack with his Claw/Claw/Bite routine? INA: Claw?

You quoted me and yet didn't even respond to the implicit question. Are you really expecting me to try to answer your question if you don't clarify the conditions?

You stated that it doesn't make sense for the Fighter to be able to gain a feat if he only met the prerequisites for only a few minutes just before he levels up. But what if that is exactly what happens? What if he's had 10 Strength from permanent drain for the entire level and only minutes before levelling up had it restored? Doesn't that violate your paradigm?

No, not at all. And, I question the validity of the word 'paradigm'. While I'm not attempting to argue/teach grammar, I think your use of the word shows an inherent miscommunication between us. If you could state your purpose in quizzing me, perhaps your issues with me could be resolved more easily.

What if he was from a race that has natural claw attacks, but he was tortured and had his claws chopped off, leaving with no natural claw attacks, but then he received a Regenerate spell minutes before levelling up?

You can remove a creature's natural weapons? Where is that rule provided? Or, are you asking me for my opinion on a hypothetical houserule scenario?

 

[Rystil Arden]

You quoted me and yet didn't even respond to the implicit question. Are you really expecting me to try to answer your question if you don't clarify the conditions?

I thought it was clear when I said 'permanently' that it can be for an arbitrarily long time. Let's say that the player was turned into a cat two levels ago and has been a cat for this whole time.

No, not at all. And, I question the validity of the word 'paradigm'. While I'm not attempting to argue/teach grammar, I think your use of the word shows an inherent miscommunication between us. If you could state your purpose in quizzing me, perhaps your issues with me could be resolved more easily.

Paradigm: A set of assumptions, concepts, values, and practices that constitutes a way of viewing reality for the community that shares them, especially in an intellectual discipline.

In this case, I am asking these questions not as a quiz but rather to place your paradigm concretely so that I can understand it better (and thus understand all the people who share that paradigm better).

You can remove a creature's natural weapons? Where is that rule provided? Or, are you asking me for my opinion on a hypothetical houserule scenario?

If you don't like that one, then let's try something different but fundamentally similar. What if my Lizardman character spends his entire time from level 5 to 6 Magic Jarred in the body of the evil human wizard who switched bodies with him, but then he is returned to his true body minutes before levelling up. Can he take INA? Multiattack?

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

but then he is returned to his true body minutes before levelling up.

This is the fundamental disconnect.

Is there actually such a thing as "minutes before levelling up?" It implies that "levelling up" is an instantaneous process (i.e., at one moment, you are level 5, and one moment later, you are level 6).

 

[Infiniti2000]

I thought it was clear when I said 'permanently' that it can be for an arbitrarily long time. Let's say that the player was turned into a cat two levels ago and has been a cat for this whole time.

Does the DM allow a cat to take PC class levels? How does the DM in question rule 'levelling up'?

If you don't like that one, then let's try something different but fundamentally similar. What if my Lizardman character spends his entire time from level 5 to 6 Magic Jarred in the body of the evil human wizard who switched bodies with him, but then he is returned to his true body minutes before levelling up. Can he take INA? Multiattack?

Does the DM allow lizardman characters? Does one gain XP while being the victim of a magic jar?

In this case, I am asking these questions not as a quiz but rather to place your paradigm concretely so that I can understand it better (and thus understand all the people who share that paradigm better).

Well, as was made clear at the beginning of this thread, it's an undefined situation. So, no matter what you rule, it's a houserule. Your continued quizzing is really just trying to understand my personal houserule 'paradigm' on levelling up, right? I haven't thought of all these hypothetical situations, so it would take me some time to think about them. Are you looking for advice on these scenarios?

 

[Rystil Arden]

This is the fundamental disconnect.

Is there actually such a thing as "minutes before levelling up?" It implies that "levelling up" is an instantaneous process (i.e., at one moment, you are level 5, and one moment later, you are level 6).

Obviously, working towards the next level is a continual process. However, under the RAW, the actual act of levelling up (by which I define that term as the occasion at which you roll another hit dice, select a feat, etc) occurs instantaneously. Specifically, this happened when they made the training rules a variant. However, you can look at it this way too. The GM retreats to start calculating XP and then returns and informs the player that he receives Y experience points. The player looks at this, sees that it is enough to get up a level and then performs one of the actions stated above, after which he announces that he now has enough XP to level up and the GM awards the level. If you don't like this ordering, then say the character performed the action during the last round of a combat, or right before going to sleep, or whatever time right before the GM rewarded the crucial XP.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Does the DM allow a cat to take PC class levels? How does the DM in question rule 'levelling up'?

If they don't allow a cat to take PC levels and if they don't use the normal levelling rules in the PH, then they aren't following the RAW.

Does the DM allow lizardman characters? Does one gain XP while being the victim of a magic jar?

The first question is immaterial to the discussion. Obviously the GM does allow lizardman characters because the PC is a lizardman As for XP, not giving XP while in a different body would be a House Rule. Just because it doesn't say not to do something that is a departure from the rules doesn't mean that it isn't a departure.

Well, as was made clear at the beginning of this thread, it's an undefined situation. So, no matter what you rule, it's a houserule. Your continued quizzing is really just trying to understand my personal houserule 'paradigm' on levelling up, right? I haven't thought of all these hypothetical situations, so it would take me some time to think about them. Are you looking for advice on these scenarios?

I'm just interested to see how the paradigm stands up to similar conditions, not specifically for you but merely to try to understand all the people who disallow Claws of the Beast and INA.