D&D 4E A couple of things that suck about the 4e SRD/OGL

[Dragonblade]

1) All OGL products will require the PHB. Third party publishers have proven they can create good and successful d20-based games that don't really need WotC books. Locking them into requiring the PHB is the worst possible way they could acknowledge that. What this means for those games is an unavoidable fork in the road.

Well, I'm not surprised. The whole point of the SRD is so WotC can sell D&D books. Providing free rules for 3rd party publishers to go off on their own and make independent products is not in WotC's best interest. Nor is it in the consumers really. I have a lot of standalone d20 products, and a lot of pages are eaten up just by them reprinting the core rules. Its a waste. If I buy an OGL product, I want all new material thats compatible with the PHB I already own. Not yet another reprint of the SRD. However, 3rd parties can still do variant rules. I don't see anything that precludes that at all.

2) No third party support for the digital initiative, this would maim games that use 3rd party material. To me this is a defining factor in the success of the Digital Initiative, in this era, being able to customize a product for ones' tastes is *mandatory* (WoW's scriptability, myspace customization, internet mashups, etc).

WotC has said that this is still being discussed. I'm sure we'll see 3rd party support for the DI. Especially since 3rd party support directly benefits WotC because if Paizo fans come to the DI for a Pathfinder module, thats more subscription based users for WotC.

 

[IconoclastX]

In some podcast interview, Christopher Perkins (I think) noted that they where looking forward to fan-created material for the DI.

I believe this is partly because if it then gets posted on Gleemax or DI that it probably becomes their (WotC) property.

 

[DragonBelow]

they just haven't looked at the issue in any sort of depth yet.

To me, this should be available at the same time 3rd party publishers are allowed to sell 4e products.

 

[mach1.9pants]

I don't think it is a problem that any 4E based stuff has to be more closely tied to the PHB than in 3.5E because, from what we've seen, 4E is not the huge 2E to 3E jump. As it still uses the d20 system it means that many total variant rules have no real reason to switch to 4E compatible. They can just adjust as they go on. I am sure that 4E and WotC will be picking bits from those publishers and ideas will filter back into 3.5E total conversion games in some legal manner.
As I say it seems to me that many of the changes that are going into 4E are irrelevant to many indie games: why do they care about a wizards spells, save and die, alignment changes, etc etc most don't use them! there is nothing stopping indie publishers from releasing 2E of their products that incorporate some of the 4E way of doing things as long as they don't cut and paste...I hope so anyway
Oh, and the OGL and SRD have been released by a business called WotC owned by Hasbro: it ain't done for freedom and mom's apple pie! They released cos they hoped to make their product sell more nothing else! It is their product they can do what they like with it and very few other companies in any field have anything as nice as the 3.5 OGL and SRD. We were lucky to have it_ basically a free game that costs 100US in books we can download to our hearts content- cRazY.
I hope that many publishers take up the 5000buck offer and we see lots of stuff early to try out. 5K is not much for a business although I have no idea how indie publishers run and if such a cash lump is a real problem.

 

[Raven Crowking]

Well, I'm not surprised. The whole point of the SRD is so WotC can sell D&D books. Providing free rules for 3rd party publishers to go off on their own and make independent products is not in WotC's best interest.

I think that, if you go back and read about how 3e ended up being an OGL game, you will discover that this isn't what WotC believed at that time. Indeed, WotC believed that an independent game that uses the same basic rules as D&D perforce increases the sales of D&D (as the market leader) through system familiarity.

I don't know about you, but for me Conan, Arcana Evolved, Iron Heroes, etc., have all gone into the grist mill to improve my D&D game. I imagine that I am not alone there.

This is a craptacular move on the part of WotC. I don't dispute their right to do it; I do dispute the wisdom of it. It certainly doesn't make for good consumer relations, from where I'm sitting.

RC

 

[The Ubbergeek]

Maybe they wanted to remove the crappy random dude in his garage to make bad products.

 

[Dragonblade]

I think that, if you go back and read about how 3e ended up being an OGL game, you will discover that this isn't what WotC believed at that time. Indeed, WotC believed that an independent game that uses the same basic rules as D&D perforce increases the sales of D&D (as the market leader) through system familiarity.

It was Ryan Dancey's idea originally. And I think it was a good idea. I haven't see the 4e OGL, but if its similar to the 3e OGL there is no reason innovative products like Iron Heroes can't be made. But there was no reason that Iron Heroes or Arcana Evolved had to be standalone games. They could easily have been made without reprinting half the SRD.

 

[Szatany]

Wasn't the whole point of the SRD a way to help sell D&D?

If we don't need the D&D books, then it failed its goal.



I didn't see anything one way or the other on this?

Perhaps there appears to be no support simply because we have no real knowledge yet of how it works. Perhaps it will be a simple task of a company creating a database set for the DI?

On one hand I understand them, I'd do the exact same thing. On the other hand it sucks if there is no 4e version of World of Warcraft . New rules would emulate the setting much better than 3e ever did.

 

[Oldtimer]

I don't think anyone has the right to bad mouth WOTC for any decision in this regard, especially since they are NOT yanking the 3E OGL.

No brownie points for not doing that, since they cannot do that. The 3E OGL is for ever.

And, sure, we can bad mouth WotC for this stupid decision. It's a universe between the protectionism this news release breathes and these sections in the SRD FAQ:

Q: Can I use the SRD verbatim?

A: Sure.

Q: Could I publish the whole thing?

A: Sure. If you think someone would be willing to pay for it, you're more than welcome to try.

Q: There's a lot of material in the SRD that seems too simple to copyright or comes from the public domain. Why does Wizards of the Coast call the whole thing Open Game Content (OGL)?

A: One of the objectives of the OGL/d20 project is to create a "safe harbor" that clearly identifies material that can be used, derived from, modified, and distributed without fear of litigation. To that end, the SRD contains material that is public domain, copyright, and somewhere in between. But using the OGL, it all carries with it the same, uniform set of rights, thus creating the safe harbor.

I would call this the beginning of the dark ages of Open Gaming.

 

[Kesh]

I would call this the beginning of the dark ages of Open Gaming.

Uh-huh. As opposed to all those years where we had no legal access to create supplements which claimed compatibility with D&D at all?