A CR 2 Triton can summon a CR 3 Water Elemental?

[Runestar]

Look at it this way -- a 30% chance to a CR 9 is only like adding a CR 3, right? Or, being that "succubi are not warriors," it's more like turning a CR 7 into a CR 9 instead.

Except there is no such thing as a 1/3 chance. In combat, one of 2 things will happen. Either the succubus manages to get off its summoning ability, and you are faced with a fight that is much tougher than its EL would let on, or it fizzles (because you rolled within the failure range), and the succubus just wasted a round doing squat. Either way, it doesn't seem like an effective way to run an encounter, because it suggests that the fight will either be much more tougher or easier than the succubus' cr lets on.

This also makes me wonder - does a balor's cr20 assume it will summon another balor to help it? The MM does mention that fiends generally do not use their summoning abilities unless they are on the brink of defeat, but I wonder if the designers actually follow their own advice...

This is why I never liked innate summoning abilities on npcs. If I wanted the triton to have a water elemental companion/summon, I would just have it start combat with one (simply place the elemental mini on the map) and factor its cr into the overal EL.

Otherwise, I agree with Frank. If the triton initiated combat with the elemental already in place, treat it as an actual cr3 challenge and award xp accordingly.

 

[Noumenon]

Also, the triton got a power up from 3.0. When wotc was powering up the druids spell list, they gave a strong boost to the Summon Nature Ally dropping several monsters down a whole spell level. in 3.0, the only elementals SNA4 gave access to were [1d3] small water elementals.

That would make a lot more sense. Summoning "up" is just weird unless the whole purpose of the low CR monster is to be the herald of the real monster. I think I'll make tritons summon d10/3 small water elementals, and if they roll a 10, they get the medium one. That'll be cool.

treat it as an actual cr3 challenge and award xp accordingly.

CR 4-1/2, actually. (You can just add up the XPs for each creature in DMG table 2-6 on page 38 and the total for the encounter corresponds to the encounter's CR. Much easier than table 3-1 on page 49, which doesn't even have an entry for a CR 2 plus a CR 3.)

 

[pawsplay]

1/day—summon nature’s ally IV. Caster level 7th. Tritons often choose water elementals for their companions.

* For seven rounds.
* And it cannot affect anyone under Protection from X, a 1st level spell.

 

[AllisterH]

* For seven rounds.
* And it cannot affect anyone under Protection from X, a 1st level spell.

7 rounds is way more than enough time and Prot from Evil lasts only 1 minute/level.

The problem with "DEFENSE" spells is that defense is generallly speaking, much worse than offense.

 

[pawsplay]

7 rounds is way more than enough time and Prot from Evil lasts only 1 minute/level.

The problem with "DEFENSE" spells is that defense is generallly speaking, much worse than offense.

You're going to have to explain yourself in order for me to understand what you are talking about. Even if all they party does is cast Protection from Evil and leave for seven rounds, the elemental has been effectively cancelled. More than enough times to what? To seriously threaten a party that decides to leave? To get dispelled? To discover it can't attack anyone but the rogue?

 

[Runestar]

Even if all they party does is cast Protection from Evil and leave for seven rounds

That is 4-5 1st lv slots expended. Seems a little too much to counter a specific ability of a cr2 npc...

 

[Hella_Tellah]

That is 4-5 1st lv slots expended. Seems a little too much to counter a specific ability of a cr2 npc...

Cast it on the person with the highest charisma. The elemental has no ranks in spellcraft, so it can't know what the spell does. Person with the Protection from X up bluffs, intimidates, or otherwise convinces the elemental to attack him. The elemental's attacks fail until it can use its 4 intelligence to figure out why its attacks are failing. And that's a tactic that works on any summoned creature, particularly one with low intelligence.

 

[pawsplay]

That is 4-5 1st lv slots expended. Seems a little too much to counter a specific ability of a cr2 npc...

Why? Even in a 1st level party, that's not a huge number of resources. For a party of 2nd level adventures, for whom one CR 2 foe is a "Fair challenge," it represents only a fraction of their capabilities.

I'll add further that it's unlikely you would need 4-5 castings to neutralize the elemental in the first place. All you need to do is cast it on the people who could end up in melee range with it.

 

[Runestar]

Yes, but remember that the triton has full control over the summoned elemental, so he can direct it to attack a different target after discovering that the first was rebuffed by protection from alignment (or maybe just have it bypass the tanks and attack the squishier targets behind).

You can try to second guess the DM by casting it only on the most likely target, but then, it is far from a sure thing.

 

[pawsplay]

Yes, but remember that the triton has full control over the summoned elemental, so he can direct it to attack a different target after discovering that the first was rebuffed by protection from alignment (or maybe just have it bypass the tanks and attack the squishier targets behind).

You can try to second guess the DM by casting it only on the most likely target, but then, it is far from a sure thing.

By the time it has attacked two targets, two of the other party members can be very far away from the elemental.