doctorbadwolf
Heretic of The Seventh Circle
Yeah I sure wouldn’t be down to play 3.5 ever again.
A critique and review of the Fighter class
I'm ok playing it, but I world never willingly run 3.5 again, certainly not at anything approaching high level.
Running 3.5 at high levels was an epic chore. Even WITH every short cut I could take it was WAY too much effort.
doctorbadwolf
Heretic of The Seventh Circle
Yeah I tried to DM in 3.5 and decided it wasn't worth the effort.
Neonchameleon
Legend
Indeed. This is a big question I have about why the fighter needs to be a simple "I hit it" class when the barbarian exists.
Bill Zebub
“It’s probably Matt Mercer’s fault.”
Fighter should have gotten Reckless Attack, and then Barbarian could have been a subclass.
I find all these magically-flavored subclasses of Barbarian distasteful.
I agree, in general.
Though I still don't understand how the designers didn't catch that they were putting in a massive trap for new players with frenzied rage.
Having frenzy impose exhaustion is bad. Exhaustion is one of the nastiest and most difficult to get rid of conditions in 5e. To have one of the basic barbarian options impose it, and for not THAT great a trade-off is unfortunate.
On Barbarians: I don't mind magical barbarians- as the totem barbarian indicates, many barbarians come from an animistic culture. They gain their powers not just from being unusually upset, but also can call upon spirits to enter their bodies and allow them to go beyond their physical limits. If this means those spirits grant the barbarian special powers, well, some scholars interpret the myths of the Norse berserkers as them not just flying into a rage, but that people thought they could actually transform into bears!
So there's a lot of mysticism that can be attributed to the class, beyond them just being Mr. Furious. Barbarians can have supernatural abilities and that's perfectly in line with their archetype.
As for frenzied rage, well, forcing yourself to ignore the limits the brain places on the body is going to do some serious damage to a person. It's not that gaining levels of exhaustion is beyond the pale (to me, at least). It's that it imposes serious limitations on how often you can use the ability that don't line up with the idea of adventuring for days on end, or facing 6-8 encounters without a long rest.
This is why, when Rage was invented for 3e, the fatigue a Barbarian suffered was only temporary. The frenzied berserker needs some mechanic to remove those levels of exhaustion more quickly, and the subclass would be fine, IMO.
So there's a lot of mysticism that can be attributed to the class, beyond them just being Mr. Furious. Barbarians can have supernatural abilities and that's perfectly in line with their archetype.
As for frenzied rage, well, forcing yourself to ignore the limits the brain places on the body is going to do some serious damage to a person. It's not that gaining levels of exhaustion is beyond the pale (to me, at least). It's that it imposes serious limitations on how often you can use the ability that don't line up with the idea of adventuring for days on end, or facing 6-8 encounters without a long rest.
This is why, when Rage was invented for 3e, the fatigue a Barbarian suffered was only temporary. The frenzied berserker needs some mechanic to remove those levels of exhaustion more quickly, and the subclass would be fine, IMO.
I don't think you can fit all the barbarian aspects in the fighter and maintain balance.
And that beside the point. The Fighter does too much as is. The how problem with Fighter as a whole is you are trying to stuff
- Roaming Warriors
- Arcane Archer
- Banneret
- Battle Master
- Cavalier
- Champion
- Echo Knight
- Eldritch Knight
- Psi Warrior
- Rune Knight
- Samurai
- Regular Knight
- Hoplites
- Brawlers
- Archer
- Noble Warriors
- City Watch
Sure, but as it stands, It's a VERY difficult condition to remove. Magically speaking you can recover from being dead (revivify) much easier than from exhaustion (greater restoration). And exhaustion adds up FAST. One level is ok (but still annoying and may well cripple a grappler build) any more than that is VERY bad for a martial character. A short rest won't do anything and even a long rest will only remove 1 level. It's bad.
I could see removing exhaustion entirely or at the most maybe allowing the barbarian to spend hit dice to remove exhaustion levels.
,
And heck make it be a mini benefit. The frenzy barbarian, used to pushing the body past its limits can remove exhaustion from any source, by spending a hit die per exhaustion level.
That would have been acceptable, yes. Actually, you could even take out the middleman, and have frenzied rage require you to spend hit dice instead of taking levels of exhaustion.
