a curiously overbalanced class, or the worst munchkin class ever in one of my games

[ph34r]

No need. The War Hulk's rock throwing ability already lets him do this with his rocks.

Nice. I didn't look much into the rock throwing ability so I was under the impression it was still a dex based attack!

 

[Mystery Man]

This discussion got me curious, so I tweaked one of these guys out. Added some magic items for the heck of it. Not too shabby. Let me know where I messed up.


Ogre
Large Giant
Hit Dice: 4d8+12 plus fighter 10d10+30 plus war hulk 4d12+12 (162hp)
Initiative: +3
Speed: 30 ft. in hide armor (6 squares); base speed 40 ft.
Armor Class: 30 (-1 size, -1 Dex, -1 Warmace, +1 dodge bonus, +9 natural, +8 Adamantine Breastplate +3, +2 deflection), touch 8, flat-footed 23
Base Attack/Grapple: +16/+27
Attack: Large Warmace +29 melee (3d6+17) or rock +29 ranged (1d8+5)
Full Attack: Large Warmace +29/+24/+19(+29 boots of speed) melee (3d6+17) or rock +29/+24/+19 ranged (1d8+5)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./10 ft.
Special Attacks: - No time to think, Great swing, Mighty rock throwing, Mighty swing
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision, Simple and martial weapon proficiencies, all armor (heavy, medium, and light) and shields (including tower)
Saves: Fort +17, Ref +4, Will +5
Abilities: Str 35, Dex 8, Con 17, Int 6, Wis 10, Cha 7
Skills: Climb +5, Craft (any) -2, Handle Animal -2, Intimidate +4, Jump +6, Listen +4, Ride +3, Spot +2, Swim +6
Feats: Combat expertise, Dodge, Greater Weapon Focus (large warmace used two handed), Improved disarm, Improved initiative, Improved toughness, Mobility, Mounted Combat, Power critical (CW), Spring attack, Trample, Toughness, Weapon Focus (Large Warmace used two handed)
Environment: Wherever the hell he wants, whenever the hell he wants to be there
Organization: Solitary, pair, gang (3-4), or band (5-8)
Challenge Rating: 17
Treasure: Standard
Alignment: Usually chaotic evil
Advancement: By character class
Level Adjustment: +2



Possesions: Amulet of natural armor +4, boots of speed, Belt of giant strenght +4, ring of protection +2, ring of fire resistance, minor, ring of the ram

 

[Darkness]

Let me know where I messed up.

If you insist...

hp seems a little high (average is 130) but maybe he rolled high...
Under speed, it should read '+3 adamantine breastplate' instead of hide armor.
AC is off (should be 27 unless you forgot to list some modifier). I'm too lazy to recalculate touch and f-f, though.
BAB should be +13. Grp should be +29.
Warmace damage bonus is off. 35 Str is a +12 modifier, +18 when two-handed. Atk should be +26. Rock damage should be 2d8+12, unless I missed something.
Fort should be +18.
Craft doesn't need to be listed, given that it's at default.
Handle Animal can't be used untrained and thus shouldn't be listed.
He can't have ranks in Listen or Spot due to No Time To Think.
With his Int, he doesn't qualify for Combat Expertise - and thus, Improved Disarm is out too.
I hope Organization is a cut-n-paste error; 3-4, much less 5-8 of him would be a bit much to encounter.
It's also strange that you bought him a +4 amulet of natural armor but no magic weapon.

 

[Mystery Man]

Ah the Warmace is from Complete warrior, using two handed doesnt give you any bonuses. You have to use it two handed or take penalties for not having exotic weapon prof. But, thanks for the edit at least he can use it one handed now (replace feats).

 

[Darkness]

Ah the Warmace is from Complete warrior, using two handed doesnt give you any bonuses. You have to use it two handed or take penalties for not having exotic weapon prof.

Yes, it's a two-handed Martial Weapon or a one-handed Exotic Weapon.

Either way, if he's using it two-handed, he adds 1.5 times his StrMod to damage. (PHB, p.113)

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

This discussion got me curious, so I tweaked one of these guys out. Added some magic items for the heck of it. Not too shabby. Let me know where I messed up.

No Time to Think should be a Special Quality, not a Special Attack.

Other than that (which is REALLY minor), and what the Darkness pointed out, it's good.

Brad

 

[Piratecat]

Heh - when I tossed one of these at my party, the telepath said "Looks big and stupid! I'll dominate him and make him attack his own allies."

 

[Darkness]

Heh - when I tossed one of these at my party, the telepath said "Looks big and stupid! I'll dominate him and make him attack his own allies."

That's always best.

Unless, maybe, you're dealing with, say, a dragon or outsider.

A goristro, for example. Lovely creatures...

 

[Patman21967]

You shpuld have given him Monkey Grip, and raised his weapon a size category, perhaps a huge Greatsword 1 handed

 

[CockyWriter]

You just discovered why every DM I know completely disallows the Miniatures Handbook for RPG use, it might have classes it says are for the RPG in there, but it's just insanely broken in a few places.

The lesson of the day is: Just because it's from WotC and "Official", doesn't mean it's balanced. It just means it's more likely to be balanced than 3rd party material (in my experience).

Wait, DnD was actually balanced at one point?