a curiously overbalanced class, or the worst munchkin class ever in one of my games

[Patman21967]

I have an old gaming buddy, who is in town for 3 weeks, playing in my game. He had no character, so I told one of my players to go ahead and work him up a Half-Ogre Barbarian, because it fit where they are. He shows up, gives Keith the character, and we start to play.

Well, he made him a War-Hulk. I don't have the book it's in, so I was suprised when on his first attack, he attacked every monster around him, in a 10 foot radius...twice...doing an average of like 35 points...Me and the other players started laughing....and then JB whipped out the miniatures book, which I didn't know even had classes for the RPG in it, and there is is, in black, white and a little color. Well, we retired him real quick, and made him a regular old Barbarian.

What a ridiculous prestige class....

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

I used one of those against a group of overconfident PCs once. They still fear Ogres to this day. Really, its just not one of those classes designed for PC use as much as for NPC use(the Large size having a lot of to with it) and yes, it is powerful.

One thing, though. The Half-Ogre. Were you using the old version with only a +1 ECL or the new RoD +2 ECL version?

 

[Patman21967]

The old one, as it was the only one we have access to, currently. He took alot of damage, because his AC wasn't good, but damn, he is a 10th ecl, and put down 5 trolls in 2 rounds....pretty gross....I can see it being an NPC, or miniature class, but it's pretty devastating.

I thought my friend Dave, who is a Cleric6/ RSoP4 was going to piss himself laughing at the expression on my face.

That is the last time I let John, the munchkin king, help me out...I'll pregen the PC myself.

 

[wingsandsword]

You just discovered why every DM I know completely disallows the Miniatures Handbook for RPG use, it might have classes it says are for the RPG in there, but it's just insanely broken in a few places.

The lesson of the day is: Just because it's from WotC and "Official", doesn't mean it's balanced. It just means it's more likely to be balanced than 3rd party material (in my experience).

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

I have an old gaming buddy, who is in town for 3 weeks, playing in my game. He had no character, so I told one of my players to go ahead and work him up a Half-Ogre Barbarian, because it fit where they are. He shows up, gives Keith the character, and we start to play.

Well, he made him a War-Hulk. I don't have the book it's in, so I was suprised when on his first attack, he attacked every monster around him, in a 10 foot radius...twice...doing an average of like 35 points...Me and the other players started laughing....and then JB whipped out the miniatures book, which I didn't know even had classes for the RPG in it, and there is is, in black, white and a little color. Well, we retired him real quick, and made him a regular old Barbarian.

What a ridiculous prestige class....

Hrm. That's...odd. You said below he was total ECL 10?

War Hulk gets Mighty Swing (hit three squares in a line, i.e., Great Swing, as an attack action) at 4th level. The requirements are Size Large, BAB +5, and Cleave.

I don't see how he could do that. As follows...assume LA of +1 for Half-Ogre (even though it's been adjusted to +2). 5 levels of Barbarian, so that's BAB +5. Then, 4 levels of War Hulk, which add a grand total of 0 to BAB, gives him...BAB +5. Or, one swing.

Either he forgot to put in the LA, or bought it off (per UA) and assumed that he made up the XP somehow, which I don't think is going to normally be the case.

It's not a really bad class; the crippling part (for most PCs, anyway) is that you lose any non-physical skills, save Intimidate...like Survival, Listen, K (Nature), etc. Well, you still have the points in them, but you're treated as having 0 ranks in them. Also, that BAB accumulation (lack thereof, anyway) is quite painful. The Str increase doesn't...quite...make up for not getting any more swings.

OTOH, it's a killer Epic or gestalt class.

Brad

 

[Sammael]

The war hulk is very clearly not intended as a PC class.

 

[Coredump]

Hmmm... I don't think it is really all that powerful. The bigger problem (IMO) is that is isn't all that fun. Yeah, it does pretty well in combat, but that is *all* it can do. And compare the 1/2 ogre/barb 5/ war hulk 5 to a human fighter 11. The human gets 3:1 attacks. and many more feats. And can use range weapons, etc.

I think playing the war hulk may be fun for a one shot with lots of combat, but damn boring as a PC. (And with low AC and saves.... may not last that long)

 

[ph34r]

My current PC is a War Hulk.

Ogre (4 Giant HD)/Barbarian 2/Fighter 1/War Hulk 4, ECL 13.

It's not that bad if you read my posts in the "Out with the old..." thread. Yeah, he's a one trick pony as far as abilities, but he's one of the most fun PC's I've roleplayed in awhile.

As far as the class goes, I still don't see it as that big of a deal. The class doesn't get a BAB so the +2 Str every level isn't so bad. What's an extra 1.5 damage every level if you two-hand the weapon? The Mighty Swing pretty much replaces extra attacks gained from BAB. (He can't attack a 10ft. radius, just 3 adjacent squares...big difference.) And the Rock Throwing isn't so great because if you go straight War Hulk your BAB is gonna suck so bad you can't really hit anything with them....I don't see a problem?

 

[Romnipotent]

Minis handbook is for RPG! *crying*
Healers can be great, Marshalls can go overboard on something of their choice. Most of the other things have been reprinted in base classes. PrC's like War Chanter as well are rather bad, especially with a Fighter in the party and a Warhulk. For those in the know, its just wrong.

 

[Stone Angel]

It has a few mitigating factors into it. No base attack bonus for one but their ability to attack areas make up for that. I mean going ten levels without gaining any bonus to hit really hurts espicially when you hit higher levels and bbeg who have higher armor class they hit a lot less. But they totally destroy any "fodder" you have to send at your players.


The Seraph of Earth and Stone