Barastrondo
First Post
I was always under the impression the other five were Bralog, Bolarg, Boarlg, Bagrol and Gorlab.
A Demon by any other name.....
Thunderfoot
Hero
Thanks for all the help guys and gals.
It's been so long I had forgotten about both the DMG and MMII (just recently acquired another copy and haven't gone through it yet.) entries. Started reading my old MM and just wondered.
Of course, I always know where to come for the right answers!
It's been so long I had forgotten about both the DMG and MMII (just recently acquired another copy and haven't gone through it yet.) entries. Started reading my old MM and just wondered.
Of course, I always know where to come for the right answers!
Voadam
Legend
Nah, Chuck's the Evil Sandwich Making Guy.
wingsandsword
Legend
As for the comment above regarding making unique creatures in to races, it makes sense as a source material gets adapted into a gaming setting.
Unique creatures are good for fiction, myth, and legend.
However, in gaming, unique creatures create limits for DM's. If a party kills a unique creature, then they've written themselves into a corner because they can't fight a second one. . .or fight two at once. If the campaign is designed with that in mind up front, it's not as much of an issue, but for a general-purpose D&D setting that will have many authors, and be played by countless groups across the world for many years to come, it does bring more limitations than options.
In multiple campaigns by one DM in a shared continuity), unique creatures create the question of who really killed who. For crossover settings like Planescape (or Spelljammer), having many different worlds with only a small number of named beings raises issues (both PS and SJ imply dozens, maybe even hundreds of worlds, and there are only 6 Class VI/Balor-type demons? That's a lot of worlds to tempt and places to cover, and a lot of worlds where heroes could arise to eliminate the few that exist.)
In my opinion: as a game setting design issue, making famous or notorious monsters like the Balor, the Marilith or the Medusa into a race of beings can make for a better setting, especially for an "off the shelf" setting.
Unique creatures are good for fiction, myth, and legend.
However, in gaming, unique creatures create limits for DM's. If a party kills a unique creature, then they've written themselves into a corner because they can't fight a second one. . .or fight two at once. If the campaign is designed with that in mind up front, it's not as much of an issue, but for a general-purpose D&D setting that will have many authors, and be played by countless groups across the world for many years to come, it does bring more limitations than options.
In multiple campaigns by one DM in a shared continuity), unique creatures create the question of who really killed who. For crossover settings like Planescape (or Spelljammer), having many different worlds with only a small number of named beings raises issues (both PS and SJ imply dozens, maybe even hundreds of worlds, and there are only 6 Class VI/Balor-type demons? That's a lot of worlds to tempt and places to cover, and a lot of worlds where heroes could arise to eliminate the few that exist.)
In my opinion: as a game setting design issue, making famous or notorious monsters like the Balor, the Marilith or the Medusa into a race of beings can make for a better setting, especially for an "off the shelf" setting.
Thunderfoot
Hero
The Type VIs cannot be slain... not even in the Abyss. (At least not in 1eAD&D according to the MM.) They can be deconstructed for a time, but never fully destroyed. Likewise the only way to destroy a planar being is on their plane, and honestly, that's like Rambo going solo in Vietnam... Great movie, zero believability. What you end up with is Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid kind of scenario where they are backed into a corner and gunned down by hundreds of Federales. You mean to tell me a party of six or seven people gate into the Abyss and take on the entire host of 666 planes and win? Sorry I call BS. 
They would never get to the named demons of any rank, especially when they start gating in other types, soon you have 6 to 600 hundred odds. And a fond story of how our characters 'almost' made it 100 yards into the Abyss.
Planescape and Spelljammer to me were feeble attempts to give back doors to poor DMs. Can't think of a good adventure, pop the plane wheel and drop them somewhere else so you can use that new module that has absolutely nothing to do your campaign.
Spelljammer, while innovative, was just too far gone for me and I never liked the concept of Planescape. The whole Blood War and the renaming of the demon and devil to crappy fake "non-Biblical" evil terms just reeked of capitulation to the Religious Wrong. Now, I cannot say the settings were wrong, or bad, because the are beloved by many, but they just weren't my cup of tea.
They would never get to the named demons of any rank, especially when they start gating in other types, soon you have 6 to 600 hundred odds. And a fond story of how our characters 'almost' made it 100 yards into the Abyss.Planescape and Spelljammer to me were feeble attempts to give back doors to poor DMs. Can't think of a good adventure, pop the plane wheel and drop them somewhere else so you can use that new module that has absolutely nothing to do your campaign.
Spelljammer, while innovative, was just too far gone for me and I never liked the concept of Planescape. The whole Blood War and the renaming of the demon and devil to crappy fake "non-Biblical" evil terms just reeked of capitulation to the Religious Wrong. Now, I cannot say the settings were wrong, or bad, because the are beloved by many, but they just weren't my cup of tea.
Demons and devils should be unique... There was an excellent article somewhere that I have now been trying to get someone to look up for me for the last hour* that actually covers making Chaotic Evil outsiders 'unique' due to the flux of the planes. Honestly, if your party will not remember anything but the stat block it seems boring, and there really should be just a handful of ultra-powerful beings out there in any setting that are evil. I liked the old 'banish for a century' plan of some demons and devils in D&D; fantastic.
Slainte,
-Loonook.
* (this whole speech-to-text thing is awesome, but try using Google with it ) So some posts and links are being investigated by my loyal housemates for me. Thanks guys!
Slainte,
-Loonook.
* (this whole speech-to-text thing is awesome, but try using Google with it
) So some posts and links are being investigated by my loyal housemates for me. Thanks guys!Similar Threads
