Orcus
First Post
I think "timeline" adventures are great. I use them all the time for my home gaming groups. I summarize a timeline of all the "behind the scenes" stuff that is going on, with NPC motivations and everything. Some of it the PCs discover, some they dont.
Problem is, that is really hard to do in a published module.
The timelines I create for my own group take so many permutations it is (almost) unmanagable. The only reason it is managable at all is because I know what my group is likely to do. I can make good guesses. But my party of PCs led by a LG paladin and cleric, are going to do way different things than a party led by 2 neutral wizards. Or for that matter, one led by 2 CN rogues. The time frames and motivations and such just lead to way too many permutations to create a product that has general usefulness.
I thought about this long and hard because I wanted to put out some products with this type of "timeframe" idea.
Here is why I decided it would be too hard to do:
A plot isnt just the actions of the NPC, it is the actions of the NPCs as they interact with PCs. If everything is NPC action unobserved by the PCs then it is largely (not entirely, just largely) irrelevant. Then it becomes "backstory" not plot. Dont get me wrong, that stuff is great to work out. It makes the world much richer and gives you as a DM a greater grasp of your own world. But it is hard for a published module.
The problem is, only a particular DM can predict the actual actions of his or her own group. There are some basic ones: in general, a good aligned party can be counted on to be more or less generally heroic--they will want to save the princess, etc.--when given the chance for adventure by a reputable patron (town mayor, major NPC of good reputation). And adventure design requres that to some degree.
I applaud your efforts and really hope you can come up with a viable alternative format.
I agree that NPC motivations are difficult and I will attach here some text from an upcoming Necromancer Games adventure called Tomb of Abysthor. It actually addresses some of your concerns while still being a 1E style location based adventure.
This text is from the Introduction:
"The dungeon, in addition to being a collection of evil creatures, is a dynamic setting. The priests of Tsathogga run their vile temple—the Temple of the Frog. They seek the Black Monolith and have the best access to the level in which the monolith is located. The priests of Orcus are rather new to the dungeon and have come here from the famed dungeon of Rappan Athuk to attempt to locate the Black Monolith as well. Thus, the two evil groups—though not openly in conflict—both seek the same thing. The priests of Orcus are trying to find a “back way” to the level that contains the monolith, and thus have constructed some barracks on [detail omitted] in addition to their temple on [detail omitted].
The leaders of the two groups of priests—Lokaug, the high priest of Tsathogga, and Koraashag, the high priest of Orcus—have established a détente of sorts, though each secretly searches for the monolith, hoping the other does not find it first. In addition to their desire to locate the monolith, the priests of Orcus have grand plans of expansion and covet the use the upper levels and their newly created Font of Bones to lead an undead army against Bard’s Gate—to once and for all destroy the temples of Thyr and Muir.
Add to this mix Balcoth and Dark Natasha—two powerful individuals with their own goals and desires—and it is clear that the dungeon denizens are at a tense standoff. All intelligent residents are affiliated in some fashion with the main groups. Either group (including Balcoth and Natasha as well) may enlist the PCs’ aid against one of the other factions.
Use this Machiavellian environment to spice up a traditional dungeon crawl with cunning plans, elaborate subterfuges and chances for roleplaying."
This is just an overview, more motivations are detailed within the module.
Plus, in the Introduction there is also a section you might find interesting called "How to Use A Dungeon" that you might enjoy, contining the following observations on how to prevent a setting based adventure from becoming a mindless computer game-like kill fest:
"Dungeons are classic settings for heroic swords and sorcery adventuring. Turning your party loose in a dungeon to explore it and cleanse it of evil (and treasure) is a time-honored tradition. Certainly the Stoneheart Mountain Dungeon is loaded with evil and treasure sufficient to satisfy the lusts of any bold adventurer.
Dungeons, however, do not need to be tied to “hack and slash” adventuring. Instead, the best use of a dungeon is as a dramatic setting for storytelling. Rather than have your players simply bash in door after door looking for monsters and loot, design a purpose for the party to delve into the dungeon. Give them a quest or a goal to give them direction and a sense of accomplishment. It keeps their dungeon adventuring focused and keeps the tension high—there is a risk of failing to accomplish their mission.
There are a number of such story ideas for the Stoneheart Mountain Dungeon, from less to more diffi-cult: recovering the holy tracts from the chambers beneath the shrine of Thyr, liberating a magic weapon from the stores beneath the shrine of Muir, retrieving the Stone of Tircople and the Chalice of Elanir, recovering the fabled axe of blood or even destroying the Black Monolith and freeing Abysthor himself. There are appropriate tasks for parties of all alignments and levels."
Good luck with your attempts to find a way to do timeline style adventures beyond your own game group. I'd love to see what you come up with!
Clark
Problem is, that is really hard to do in a published module.
The timelines I create for my own group take so many permutations it is (almost) unmanagable. The only reason it is managable at all is because I know what my group is likely to do. I can make good guesses. But my party of PCs led by a LG paladin and cleric, are going to do way different things than a party led by 2 neutral wizards. Or for that matter, one led by 2 CN rogues. The time frames and motivations and such just lead to way too many permutations to create a product that has general usefulness.
I thought about this long and hard because I wanted to put out some products with this type of "timeframe" idea.
Here is why I decided it would be too hard to do:
A plot isnt just the actions of the NPC, it is the actions of the NPCs as they interact with PCs. If everything is NPC action unobserved by the PCs then it is largely (not entirely, just largely) irrelevant. Then it becomes "backstory" not plot. Dont get me wrong, that stuff is great to work out. It makes the world much richer and gives you as a DM a greater grasp of your own world. But it is hard for a published module.
The problem is, only a particular DM can predict the actual actions of his or her own group. There are some basic ones: in general, a good aligned party can be counted on to be more or less generally heroic--they will want to save the princess, etc.--when given the chance for adventure by a reputable patron (town mayor, major NPC of good reputation). And adventure design requres that to some degree.
I applaud your efforts and really hope you can come up with a viable alternative format.
I agree that NPC motivations are difficult and I will attach here some text from an upcoming Necromancer Games adventure called Tomb of Abysthor. It actually addresses some of your concerns while still being a 1E style location based adventure.
This text is from the Introduction:
"The dungeon, in addition to being a collection of evil creatures, is a dynamic setting. The priests of Tsathogga run their vile temple—the Temple of the Frog. They seek the Black Monolith and have the best access to the level in which the monolith is located. The priests of Orcus are rather new to the dungeon and have come here from the famed dungeon of Rappan Athuk to attempt to locate the Black Monolith as well. Thus, the two evil groups—though not openly in conflict—both seek the same thing. The priests of Orcus are trying to find a “back way” to the level that contains the monolith, and thus have constructed some barracks on [detail omitted] in addition to their temple on [detail omitted].
The leaders of the two groups of priests—Lokaug, the high priest of Tsathogga, and Koraashag, the high priest of Orcus—have established a détente of sorts, though each secretly searches for the monolith, hoping the other does not find it first. In addition to their desire to locate the monolith, the priests of Orcus have grand plans of expansion and covet the use the upper levels and their newly created Font of Bones to lead an undead army against Bard’s Gate—to once and for all destroy the temples of Thyr and Muir.
Add to this mix Balcoth and Dark Natasha—two powerful individuals with their own goals and desires—and it is clear that the dungeon denizens are at a tense standoff. All intelligent residents are affiliated in some fashion with the main groups. Either group (including Balcoth and Natasha as well) may enlist the PCs’ aid against one of the other factions.
Use this Machiavellian environment to spice up a traditional dungeon crawl with cunning plans, elaborate subterfuges and chances for roleplaying."
This is just an overview, more motivations are detailed within the module.
Plus, in the Introduction there is also a section you might find interesting called "How to Use A Dungeon" that you might enjoy, contining the following observations on how to prevent a setting based adventure from becoming a mindless computer game-like kill fest:
"Dungeons are classic settings for heroic swords and sorcery adventuring. Turning your party loose in a dungeon to explore it and cleanse it of evil (and treasure) is a time-honored tradition. Certainly the Stoneheart Mountain Dungeon is loaded with evil and treasure sufficient to satisfy the lusts of any bold adventurer.
Dungeons, however, do not need to be tied to “hack and slash” adventuring. Instead, the best use of a dungeon is as a dramatic setting for storytelling. Rather than have your players simply bash in door after door looking for monsters and loot, design a purpose for the party to delve into the dungeon. Give them a quest or a goal to give them direction and a sense of accomplishment. It keeps their dungeon adventuring focused and keeps the tension high—there is a risk of failing to accomplish their mission.
There are a number of such story ideas for the Stoneheart Mountain Dungeon, from less to more diffi-cult: recovering the holy tracts from the chambers beneath the shrine of Thyr, liberating a magic weapon from the stores beneath the shrine of Muir, retrieving the Stone of Tircople and the Chalice of Elanir, recovering the fabled axe of blood or even destroying the Black Monolith and freeing Abysthor himself. There are appropriate tasks for parties of all alignments and levels."
Good luck with your attempts to find a way to do timeline style adventures beyond your own game group. I'd love to see what you come up with!
Clark
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