a discussion on Craft versus Profession

[Saeviomagy]

My approach?

If you make something, anything, then it's craft.

If you know something, then it's knowledge.

If you do something, then it's probably one of the other skills on the list - the ability to rise through the military ranks, for instance, would most likely be a combination of raw fighting prowess and diplomacy.

If you cannot fit whatever aspect of your character it is that you're trying to represent into any other skill, then it's profession.

Which makes it really limited, and suits me just fine. The only example I can imagine offhand is profession(gambler), which would allow you to do quick estimations of odds and the like. It doesn't let you cheat at dice (that's sleight of hand) or spot someone cheating at dice (unless they do it systematically - otherwise it's a spot opposing their sleight of hand). It just lets you guesstimate the odds and put down the right bet for the best payoff. It doesn't let you bluff at poker (that's, surprisingly enough, bluff). It just lets you work out the odds that someone else has a better hand than you, and put that together with some sense motive and you should be able to pick out exactly what's on the table.

I suppose you could take profession(farmer) if you specifically wanted to be someone who knew ONLY about growing crops and had no other aspect of knowledge(nature) or survival.

Like I said, really limited. Personally I think the rest of the skills suite handles anything else just fine.

 

[Steverooo]

BESIDES all of the above, I see Profession as being a replacement for skills, for an NPC who otherwise might not have a chance to get them... Profession (Sailor) will give a warrior aboard ship (AKA a Marine) knowledge of Rope Use, as applies to knots used aboard ship, knowledge of nautical terms (when the Cap'n orders the Marines to "Charge the Mizzenmast!", Joe knows which way to run), gives him the equivalent of the Climb skill when in the ship's rigging, etc.

Joe may know nothing about trees, cliffs, and dungeon walls, but being a warrior with Profession (Sailor), he can climb a mast or run up and down the rigging as though he did have it, and at an equal level. He could also use it to identify weather offshore as though he had Knowledge (Nature), identify sea life, etc.

If Joey Balboa has no Knowledge (Nature) to identify plants with, but has Profession (Herbalist), he can use the latter in place of the former, so long as he is identifying healing herbs. He may not recognize the strychnostoxifera vine, but he'll know the quinine tree, when he sees it (assuming he makes his Profession roll).

Thus, a PC will drive a wagon with Animal Handling, while an NPC might use Profession, instead. PCs, too, should be allowed to substitute Professional skills for other adventuring skills, so long as the Profession applies to their situation...

Having succeeded in hunting the Pirates across the spars and through the rigging, Joe the Marine may chase them off the ship, onto an island, and up a tree... Unfortunately, his lack of Climb skill will probably halt him, there, as life aboard ship hasn't prepared him for this new challenge...

 

[Li Shenron]

One thing that I always thought was kind of funny is that making food is always a profession (Cook, Brewer, Farmer). You don't need to be smart to cook the dinner, but if you're not very perceptive, you burn it

 

[J_D]

I dealt with some of these issues a couple of years ago, when attempting to assemble a master list of craft and profession skills. I came up with the following definitions:

An activity qualifies as a craft only if all of the following criteria are met:

• the work is performed on some tangible, physical object
• the object worked on is physically transformed so that it can fulfill a different function or purpose that it could not before
• the work is done by hand, with simple hand-held tools in at least the essential transforming phase (heating or curing time that does not cause the essential transformation does not count against this).

An activity qualifies as a profession if any one of the following criteria are met:

• the work is provided as a service that does not produce a new tangible good
• the tangible good worked on is only repaired or improved in its current use or function, rather than transformed (finding, gathering and/or separating goods also qualifies)
• the work is done by machinery or equipment that does not require constant (or near constant) hands-on attention or is larger or more complex than a simple hand-held tool, or the essential transforming process is dependent on some sort of chemical reaction rather than direct applied effort on the part of the worker.

Personally, I think that considering the Profession skill to be "something that lets you make money" to be patently absurd, because it implies that money can't be made by doing crafts and selling the products thereof.

I also consider cooking to be a craft, not a profession. Besides the fact that it more closely fits the criteria I give for a craft than for a profession, there's the precedence of common phraseology of the "cooking arts" together with the ubiquitous phrase "arts & crafts" which implies cooking is in the category of craft, plus the opinion of a professional food critic: Los Angeles Times food editor Russ Parsons, from his book "How to Read a French Fry", page 9, middle of first paragraph: "Anyone doubting that cooking is a complex art (or perhaps "craft" is more accurate) need only consider frying."

I think that Profession (soldier) has nothing to do with either getting paid as a soldier or any knowledge of unit tactics at all. Profession (Soldier) should be all about -- and only about -- the day-to-day things someone needs to know to function within a military hierarchy. One needs to recognize rank insignia and know their order (i.e. this rank is higher than that rank), know the chain of command (i.e. what individuals are above one and their ranks), know the regulations one is bound by, know how to march in formation and in step, and perhaps know the unit composition and hierarchy (e.g. companies are made up of platoons which are made up of squads). Battlefield strategies and unit tactics should have nothing at all to do with the Profession (soldier) skill but instead be part of Knowledge (War) from Sword & Fist or Knowledge (Tactics) from the Complete Warrior... and use one or the other of those latter skills not both, since they are the same skill under different names. (It wouldn't be the first time that different books use different names for the same skill; does WotC not have any internal master skill list to keep things consistent?)