A dwarf controlled world

[Moonstone Spider]

Sure, why not and so what. Flint weapons are nothing against hard metal- the orcs are still screwed. Elves have even slower breeding than dwarves and their human armies so stronger wood doesn't enter the equation much.

Hmm, Flint vs. Steel is heavily dependent on the type of weapon. A stone knife will not cut through Plate armor but five pounds of rock on a stick is just as lethal as five pounds of steel on a stick.

And as they say, quantity has a quality all it's own. It depends heavily on just how outnumbered Dwarves are by orcs and humans.

 

[drdevoid]

And as they say, quantity has a quality all it's own. It depends heavily on just how outnumbered Dwarves are by orcs and humans.

And half-orcs could have a background unrelated to rape or outskirt desperation.

 

[Nyaricus]

If Dwarves ruled they'd have big people tossing contests.

LOL that is so getting sigged. Dwarves are my favourite race, and THAT, sirrah, was brilliant

 

[trancejeremy]

Well, if they kept all the gold and silver, then people would simply use something else for currency. Most of the world used something else, I think only the Europeans used gold for money.

Plus, even if dwarves own and control every hill and mountain (which would require billions of them), I don't think all the iron is actually in the mountains - iron is by its very nature common (basically it's where fusion stops - anything further is where it starts taking energy to fuse, anything else needs a supernova). I know it also occurs in swamps (as "bog iron"), and I think it tends to wash down streams and rivers...


The real question should be, is how do Dwarves smelt all the stuff they mine? You need lots and lots of trees for that. While many hills are covered with them, you never see dwarves do much lumberjacking (though it does explain their affinity for axes).

 

[interwyrm]

Even in Dark Sun, if I remember right, iron and steel weapons were rare but existed, and they were superior to the obsidian and bone weapons.

Dwarves will hire the faster-breeding races as guards and mercenaries, and arm them with superior weaponry.

Elves won't be affected all that much because they'll simply continue to use longbows and magic. They might lose their other racial weapon profiencies, and maybe all gain two-weapon fighting for some quick quarterstaff action.

Humans living in the plains will likely take to using slings, and if they can get them, large wooden shields. They'll be pretty much screwed.

 

[DMH]

Say what? How does this pertain to slow breeding?

Humans and halfling, which breed much faster than dwarves fill out the armies in service to the dwarves. It doesn't matter how many dwarves there are because the surface enemies are going to face the humans and halflings.

Well, if they kept all the gold and silver, then people would simply use something else for currency. Most of the world used something else, I think only the Europeans used gold for money.

They pay their mercenaries with gold and silver and are simply the source of the valuable metals.

Plus, even if dwarves own and control every hill and mountain (which would require billions of them), I don't think all the iron is actually in the mountains

It wouldn't be in hills and mountains because:

It would be easy to do by dropping the veins of ore by 2 or 3 miles so that humans and gnomes have little or no access.

The real question should be, is how do Dwarves smelt all the stuff they mine?

Coal? Maybe they have found a way of using oil and mine that.

Humans living in the plains will likely take to using slings, and if they can get them, large wooden shields. They'll be pretty much screwed.

Spot on for those human nations who have rejected dwarven rule.

Thinking about this last night, I came up with a major change- elves are like Warcraft's blood elves and get their power from demons. They want to open the gate, but the dwarves and their mercenaries stand in the way. The forests they control are dark, twisted things created by fiend binders (change orc to elf as a requirement and allow plants to be affected as well).

 

[interwyrm]

Thinking about this last night, I came up with a major change- elves are like Warcraft's blood elves and get their power from demons. They want to open the gate, but the dwarves and their mercenaries stand in the way. The forests they control are dark, twisted things created by fiend binders (change orc to elf as a requirement and allow plants to be affected as well).

I like this. Of course... I like any excuse to kill elves.

 

[Tzarevitch]

Hmm, Flint vs. Steel is heavily dependent on the type of weapon. A stone knife will not cut through Plate armor but five pounds of rock on a stick is just as lethal as five pounds of steel on a stick.

And as they say, quantity has a quality all it's own. It depends heavily on just how outnumbered Dwarves are by orcs and humans.

In practice, 5lbs of rock on a stick is nowhere near a good 5lb steel mace. If it was, there would have been no incentive to leave the stone age.

Same is true of the arguments about bronze equipment. It is OK if that is all you have, but it will loose to steel every time unless you have a serious numbers advantage and are willing to take significant losses to win.

Tzarevitch

 

[Falkus]

They pay their mercenaries with gold and silver and are simply the source of the valuable metals.

The value of gold and silver is simply a social construct. Those two metals have no inherent worth, the only value they have is that which society asigns it. If humans don't use gold or silver as a currency, then it doesn't matter wheter or not Dwarves can pay in it.

 

[Felix]

Just because the dwarves mine the stuff doesn't mean they will produce superior technology, though it does give them the advantage. What's important is innovation: can the dwarves find a new, better way to use the resources at hand to gain an advantage in something or other over their enemies. The Chinese had gunpowder centuries before Europe, but they were British cannonballs that subdued the Qing Empire.

DnD has painted dwarves to be slow growing, isolationist, traditionalist to the extreme, and devoted to craft-production. That combination will not lead that race to rule over others.

The slow groing factor will ruin them if only because in any war they fight, if they kill 200 goblins or orcs to each dwarf, it's still a loss for the dwarves. The goblins will be back in 10 years just as numerous while dwarven population stagnates.

By being isolationist, they restrict the number of ideas that can pass back and forth, likely even between clans. Some dwarf might have a good idea (I'll make the axe-head elliptical!), but unless there's communication no good will come of it.

Traditionalism can be a virtue, especially if the traditions held produce hard work and espouse virtue. It is not good when it becomes a distrust of everything new, which DnD dwarves are often depicted as. How long has their culture remained where it is? What is another word for staying still? Stagnant?

Craft production has made some of history's finest pieces. Each original paining is an example of craft produciton that cannot be imitated by even the finest reproductive methods; everything else remains a copy. But when the purpose of a thing is not to be appreciated for its aesthetic, but for its effacasy, then craft production is a poor way to go about making things. Historically, the roman swords were so successful because they were cheap, and so they could arm everyone. But every dwarf I've ever heard of runs around with his beautifully engraved, embossed, thrice gilded axe. At least, any axe he cares about. Perhaps it's a function of not having all that many dwarves around so each axe can have the names of five generations carved on them.

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As their culture is written, the dwarves just won't take over. They'll sit in their mines, they'll beat the tar out of folks who come looking for trouble, and they'll probably supply the surface races with metals and goods for something they need. (Where do they grow the wheat to brew all that beer they talk about?)

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The real question should be, is how do Dwarves smelt all the stuff they mine? You need lots and lots of trees for that. While many hills are covered with them, you never see dwarves do much lumberjacking (though it does explain their affinity for axes).

I believe you can use coal as the burning agent in smelting, which would be convenient since it is also a better input for forging and it's found underground. Like dwarves.

If humans don't use gold or silver as a currency, then it doesn't matter wheter or not Dwarves can pay in it.

The virtues of gold and sliver are that they:
Are rare, but not too rare.
Are malleable, but hard.
Are of easily identifiable purity.
Are light.

Much more so than any other materials; at least those available in the real world. So it's likely a post-barter pre-fiat-currency economy will quickly make use of silver, and to a lesser extent gold.

But just dumping loads of gold and silver into the surface economy is not necessiarly a recepie for success: Spain did it in Europe in the 16th and 17th centuries and she produced nothing for herself. It inflated the value of gold and silver, beggared the own economy, and she's been trailing the rest of Europe since. While this might not happen to dwarven economies, it is possible.