[A&E Guide] Blindfold of True Darkness

[Hypersmurf]

For some reason, this thread reminds me of Nethack.

"You wrap the towel around your head."

-Hyp.

 

[kreynolds]

If there's no darkness, who bothers to wear an item that grants blindsight?

Someone that just got caught in the light? A dispelled deeper darkness?

Conversely, why do people insist on purchasing longbows for dungeon crawl?

 

[Saeviomagy]

Just a point kreynolds - the commonness of the item in question is going to be a function of it's power relative to it's cost.
Furthermore, saying that the item is going to be uncommon somehow balances out the rarity of the 'fleet of foot'(?) feat is just wrong. The chance of an individual with this item meeting someone with fleet of foot would be no more or less than that of an individual without the item.

Personally, I think the problem is that blindsight itself is a very badly defined sense. For instance, if it negates spot and listen checks, why does it give a bat a bonus to those exact skills? Why do hardly any of the creatures list what version of it they have (sight, listening, scent etc).

My suggestion would be to simply use the rules from d20 modern for hiding from an opponent (you must have a certain degree of cover or concealment from your opponent), and say that a creature with blindsight must still make spot and listen checks (although those checks may represent some other sense, they serve the same purpose). In addition, illusions should be clarified such that they apply against a range of abilities that is clearly defined.

However, the item is still too good for 9000. Fighting a creature (especially one with ranged attacks) in pitch darkness is near impossible. It's much, much worse than fighting an opponent who is merely invisible.

 

[Caliban]

My example didn't include darkness, thus no reduction in speed.

Then it's not a very good example, because it doesn't adequately illustrate the problem. And if you think that calling it contrived is "getting ugly", then you have issues. I mean really.

There are three primary situations where you would want to wear the blindfold: You are facing an invisible enemy, you are facing a gaze attack, or you are in a situation that is concealing everyone from sight (magical darkness, obscuring mist, etc.)

If your enemy is invisible, there are already numerous ways of countering that in 3E, the blindfold is just one more (and not the best method either).

And in general, if you want to run away from me, more power to you.

But remember, if you do a 4x movement, it has to be in a straight line (if the feat is rare and the magic item is rare, then it means it is even less likely to be used as a counter to the magic item, and is therefore irrelevent to the discussion). I can easy follow that line without making any listen checks.

The situation where the blindfold is most powerful is when you are in an area of darkness. That can easily be created by almost any spellcaster, just by casting it on your weapon. Unsheathe the weapon, and instant darkness.

The main problem with the item is that they don't price it as a constant spell effect. It should be priced off of the Blindsight spell, as a use activated spell effect: spell level x caster level x 2,000 gp.

If you use the blindsight spell from Savage Species, which is 2nd level, it would cost 12,000 gp.

If you use the blindsight spell from Magic of Faerun (which is 3rd level and only grants 30' blindsight), it would be 30,000 gp.

And on top of blindsight it makes you immune to gaze attacks. It's much, much, better than darkvision. Much more than 1,000 gp better than the goggles of darkvision.

 

[ConcreteBuddha]

When I saw that blindfold, my Munchkin Alert went nuts.

Same thing with the Ghaele, the Half-Ogre, the Antropomorphic Crocodile, the "Roll-with-It" feat, and the Blindsight, Lion's Charge and Superior Resistance spells from SS.

Why, exactly, is 3.5e going to nerf Haste and Harm, while at the same time adding on such obvious offenders of future rules abuse? Seems kinda silly to me.
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The 2nd level Blindsight in SS has a 30ft. range. The 60ft. range Improved Blindsight is a 4th level spell.

 

[hong]

Same thing with the Ghaele, the Half-Ogre, the Antropomorphic Crocodile, the "Roll-with-It" feat, and the Blindsight, Lion's Charge and Superior Resistance spells from SS.

Why, exactly, is 3.5e going to nerf Haste and Harm, while at the same time adding on such obvious offenders of future rules abuse? Seems kinda silly to me.

While lion's charge is probably a bit out of whack, I don't see anything wrong with blindsight and superior resistance at all. Most players tend to prioritise offense over defense, so these spells are probably going to be less prevalent than, say, 3.0E haste or improved invis. And neither blindsight nor superior resistance stops a giant from clubbing you to death in the good old-fashioned way.

 

[kreynolds]

Just a point kreynolds - the commonness of the item in question is going to be a function of it's power relative to it's cost.

I agree.

Furthermore, saying that the item is going to be uncommon somehow balances out the rarity of the 'fleet of foot'(?) feat is just wrong.

I disagree. If you happen to have the fleet of foot feat, its very very easy to escape the blindfold user.

 

[kreynolds]

Then it's not a very good example, because it doesn't adequately illustrate the problem.

I wasn't illustrating the problem. I was illustrating a solution.

And if you think that calling it contrived is "getting ugly", then you have issues.

Nah. I don't have issues. I just expect you to be polite. If you can't be, then we have a problem.

I mean really.

That's not polite.

It should be priced off of the Blindsight spell...

Except the Blindsight spell (MaoF) only works off of vibration. The blindfold isn't limited like that, so technically, it would be even more expensive.

If you use the blindsight spell from Savage Species, which is 2nd level, it would cost 12,000 gp.

I don't have that with me. Do you happen to know if that one is limited to certain senses? Or is it all encompassing?

 

[Caliban]

I wasn't illustrating the problem. I was illustrating a solution.

To what problem then? The few posts prior to yours (including mine) were talking about the problem of a rogue using the blindfold in deeper darkness.

Apparently your post had nothing to do with that. Get with the program!

Nah. I don't have issues. I just expect you to be polite. If you can't be, then we have a problem.

You are way to thin-skinned. I expected better from a fellow Texan. Grow a pair.

That's not polite.

Except the Blindsight spell (MaoF) only works off of vibration. The blindfold isn't limited like that, so technically, it would be even more expensive.

I'm glad you agree with me now. Was that so hard?

I don't have that with me. Do you happen to know if that one is limited to certain senses? Or is it all encompassing?

"This spell grants the subject the blindsight ability out to a range of 30 feet." No mention of any specific senses involved.

 

[kreynolds]

To what problem then?

The blindfold.

The few posts prior to yours (including mine) were talking about the problem of a rogue using the blindfold in deeper darkness.

Right. I wasn't talking about darkness. I was presenting a solution to the item itself.

Apparently your post had nothing to do with that.

With darkness? No. It didn't. That much was very evident. I even stated so multiple times.

Get with the program!

I could say the same thing, as my post was never about darkness, but the item itself.

You are way to thin-skinned.

Nope. I simply expect you to treat me as well as I treat you.

I expected better from a fellow Texan.

I expected better from a fellow poster.

Grow a pair.

Another!?! Dude! Do you have any idea how uncomfortable my pants would get!?!

I'm glad you agree with me now.

I somewhat agreed about six posts up. Did you not see it? It was my reply to Forrester.