[A&E Guide] Blindfold of True Darkness

[kreynolds]

Take this, for example. You have this blindfold on, you're attacking me, and now its my turn. I make a x4 move outta there. I no longer exhist to you. Granted, you may be able to figure out if which direction I went with a Listen check, but what if I turn (there's a feat for that somewhere)? If there are two flights of stairs next to each other, one that goes up and one that goes down, I don't even need to turn. With me outside of your range of blindsight, you don't know which way I went. If I'm hasted, its even easier to get away from you.

Normally, you could just open your eyes and see which way I went, but with this blindfold, you can't see.

I don't think evading someone with this blindfold would be very difficult (depending on the circumstances, of course), so the price doesn't seem that low to me.

 

[Forrester]

I agree. Blindsight is waaaay cheaty, and 9k is off by almost an order of magnitude.

Blindsight negates Displacement, Blur, Invisibility, as well as all other illusions, and the way it works for Dragons and others, seems to negate all Hiding and Moving Silently within the radius as well (no Spot/Listen checks required!). Should a 9k item be able to counter that many spells?

In other words, it's damn close to being nearly as good as a permanent True Seeing. A Gem of True Seeing costs 90k, and you have to hold it in front of yer eye (I don't think you can just carry it around and get the bonus).

 

[Hypersmurf]

In other words, it's damn close to being nearly as good as a permanent True Seeing. A Gem of True Seeing costs 90k, and you have to hold it in front of yer eye (I don't think you can just carry it around and get the bonus).

Helm of Vision (DotF) is just over 90k, but it's a slotted item.

-Hyp.

 

[kreynolds]

Blindsight negates Displacement, Blur, Invisibility, as well as all other illusions, and the way it works for Dragons and others, seems to negate all Hiding and Moving Silently within the radius as well (no Spot/Listen checks required!).

The problem is that it is very rare for a blindsight to cover most of the senses, such as sound, scent, and vibrations (assassin vine, and as you mentioned, dragons), all into one package. Most creatures have a limited form of blindsight, such as the grimlock. This item should probably be limited in a similar fashion. Even the 3rd level wiz/sor spell Blindsight only works with vibration, so its easier to counter.

 

[Savage Wombat]

Hey - do we actually know if you can Sneak Attack while using Blindsight? After all, if you can't "see" your target, you're not allowed to sneak him, right?

I know that most people will say that you can, I'm just wondering if anyone can support it.

 

[Caliban]

Take this, for example. You have this blindfold on, you're attacking me, and now its my turn. I make a x4 move outta there. I no longer exhist to you.

You can only move half speed in darkness (because you are effectively blind in darkness). Most creatures have a speed of 30 or less, which means that even running at x4 you are limited to a 60 ft move, which leaves you within the blindsight radius.

And you are assuming that you can move in a straight line at least 60' away. In general, most fight take place in enclosed spaces (generally called "dungeons"), and you will be limited to 30' of movement because you have to turn a corner or hit a wall at some point.

You are also assuming that your opponent has the option of just running away. Many times that is not the case in dungeon settings (guardian creatures, etc.).

Granted, you may be able to figure out if which direction I went with a Listen check, but what if I turn (there's a feat for that somewhere)?

Wouldn't even need a listen check. Even if you could somehow move more than 60 feet, I would know exactly the path you are following after you leave my darkvision range. The feat you mention would help, but I've yet to see anyone actually take it, so I really don't think it can be considered a common balancing factor to this magic item.

If there are two flights of stairs next to each other, one that goes up and one that goes down, I don't even need to turn. With me outside of your range of blindsight, you don't know which way I went. If I'm hasted, its even easier to get away from you.

Big IF there. The number of combats that take place 65' or more away from a stair landing (in a straight line no less) are so small as to be insignificant.

Normally, you could just open your eyes and see which way I went, but with this blindfold, you can't see.

I don't think evading someone with this blindfold would be very difficult (depending on the circumstances, of course), so the price doesn't seem that low to me.

Under a few very contrived circumstances (such as the ones you mentioned: have a specific feat or having a conveniently placed set of double stairs), it would be possible to escape fairly easily.

Under the circumstances that most fights take place in, it wouldn't be easy to escape (barring a magical escape such as teleport). That's what makes the price too low.

(Of course, the blindfold doesn't give you and advantage against a creature who also has blindsight, but even then it can put you on an even footing with the creature if it is invisible or within magical darkness, or concealing fog.)

 

[AuraSeer]

Take this, for example. You have this blindfold on, you're attacking me, and now its my turn. I make a x4 move outta there.

If the rogue is toting a deeper darkness, you need to move at half speed-- 15' for a human. The Run action lets you move 4x that, or 60', which takes you just barely to the edge of the dark area. The rogue gets an AoO when you run, and then on his next turn he charges 60' and stabs you.

You're right that the blindfolded character would sometimes be easily evaded; if the opponents are able to see, and they have sufficient room to maneuver, they can get out of range of the blindsight. However, when the enemy can see, why bother with the blindfold at all? It has its greatest utility in magical darkness, when anyone without blindsight can't see at all. A smart rogue would have multiple deeper darkness effects running on his person, so even an area dispel wouldn't bring the lights back on.

 

[kreynolds]

You can only move half speed in darkness...

My example didn't include darkness, thus no reduction in speed.

And you are assuming that you can move in a straight line at least 60' away.

Yup.

In general, most fight take place in enclosed spaces (generally called "dungeons"), and you will be limited to 30' of movement because you have to turn a corner or hit a wall at some point.

Generally, this is true, and I'd be the first to agree that the game was designed for that.

You are also assuming that your opponent has the option of just running away.

No. I'm assuming that I'm the opponent, and that I want to run away. The example was quite clear in this.

Many times that is not the case in dungeon settings (guardian creatures, etc.).

In my experience, the majority of dungeon creatures are only restricted to an area if the DM demands it. They generally aren't restricted in this way by default.

Wouldn't even need a listen check. Even if you could somehow move more than 60 feet, I would know exactly the path you are following after you leave my darkvision range.

But only up to the extent of your blindsight range. After that, without a good listen check, your guess is the best you have.

The feat you mention would help, but I've yet to see anyone actually take it, so I really don't think it can be considered a common balancing factor to this magic item.

And unless this magic item is made common by the DM, it balances out perfectly. Rarely picked feat and a rarely encountered magic item. I do, however, consent that such a countering situation would be quite rare.

Big IF there.

True, but relevant.

Under a few very contrived circumstances (such as the ones you mentioned: have a specific feat or having a conveniently placed set of double stairs), it would be possible to escape fairly easily.

Contrived? What's up with that? If you don't like my example, just say so (as you did), but you don't need to get ugly about it.

Under the circumstances that most fights take place in, it wouldn't be easy to escape...

True, but there are still a lot of drawbacks.

That's what makes the price too low.

I still somewhat disagree, given that it is far more difficult to counter than usual (sound, smell, vibration, and all that).

(Of course, the blindfold doesn't give you and advantage against a creature who also has blindsight, but even then it can put you on an even footing with the creature if it is invisible or within magical darkness, or concealing fog.)

Very true.

 

[kreynolds]

If the rogue is toting a deeper darkness, you need to move at half speed-- 15' for a human.

Right, but darkness had nothing to do with my example.

 

[AuraSeer]

Right, but darkness had nothing to do with my example.

If there's no darkness, who bothers to wear an item that grants blindsight?