A Fantasy RPG: What's Required?

[Reynard]

As Mallus said, you'd then have to decide whether to feed those descriptors into a task resolution system or a conflict resolution system, or something that mixes elements of both (Burning Wheel and 4e both involve mixing, each in a somewhat different way).

When attampting to be concise, I think the only choice is to feed them into the task resolution system. or, rather, if it isn't an integral part of the task resolution system, it probably shouldn't exist at all. And more to the point, if it isn't a function of the game's purpose, then it shouldn't exist at all.

"Big book" rpgs tend to go for a "kitchen sink" approach to rules and actions and potential activities. This is why they are "big books" (well, that and the need for designers to novelize the rules). More and more, though, indie rpgs take the genre back toward other kinds of games, where rather than being games about "anything goes" they are about a particular type of story or play experience. You wouldn't expect to be able to "do anything" when you sit down to play monopoly, so why would you expect to be able to do anything when you sit down to play an RPG? or, at least, that seems to be the thinking.

And I think there's some virtue to that indset sometimes. Certainly, having an "open world" game like Oblivion is great, but sometimes you just want to play God of War and rip through the levels, you know?

I think the only way to create an RPG in 10K words is to narrow the focus. So, can a "save the princess, slay the dragon/sorcerer/demon" rpg that is complete and fun be designed in under 10K words, and still be unquestionably an RPG?

I think so.

 

[Ariosto]

Reynard, have you not looked at stuff listed here:
John Kim's Free RPGs on the Web

especially at this?:
Risus: The Anything RPG

and this?
Encounter Critical

(free downloads page for both Risus and EC):
CG&D Free Downloads


Encounter Critical comes to 26 letter-size pages (folded in half for digest size), including the cover. You'll want the Armor Table as well, IIRC.

It's got Hoblings and Lizard Men and Robodroids, Warriors and Warlocks and PSI Witches, Bee Girl Queens and Hyperspace Gremlins, Slings and Tommy Guns and Protonic Spearlaunchers, and something like 60 abilities ranging from Consume Alien Food to (Obey) Unpleasant Order.

The comprehensiveness, which makes it easy to find something applicable to any situation in the heat of play, is part of the appeal.

Anyhow, I recommend it as an antidote to the "wanna be sedated" syndrome of modern gaming anomie. Note that the absence of a long list of spells ties in with the factor that creating new spells is part of character advancement. Note, however, how the context is more flavorful than a dry "system". The sense of a "world" behind the numbers -- in this case a very wild and woolly one indeed! -- engages the powers of imagination more effectively.

Again, the question that comes up is just what 'completeness' means to one. Maybe you would use (if you were inclined to use it at all) just a portion of the EC material, and replace the rest with what would have been missing in terms of the game you want.

In any case, I think the format is a bit too cramped for a presentation as pleasing as people tend to expect these days.

 

[pemerton]

When attampting to be concise, I think the only choice is to feed them into the task resolution system. or, rather, if it isn't an integral part of the task resolution system, it probably shouldn't exist at all. And more to the point, if it isn't a function of the game's purpose, then it shouldn't exist at all.

I agree fully with the last sentence. I agree with the spirit of the first sentence, but you could replace "task resolution" with "conflict resolution" and still have a true sentence.

So yes, a short game has to be pretty focused. But it could use conflict rather than task resolution - perhaps even to advantage, as a generic conflict resolution mechanic is perhaps more likely to be applicable over a wide range of challenges, whereas task resolution systems have a habit of spawning page-consuming subsytems that are specific to each type of challenge.

I think the only way to create an RPG in 10K words is to narrow the focus. So, can a "save the princess, slay the dragon/sorcerer/demon" rpg that is complete and fun be designed in under 10K words, and still be unquestionably an RPG?

I think so.

Sure. Ariosto has given a few (EDIT: really, a lot of) suggestions. And from the games I'm familiar with, I'd be starting with either (i) HeroQuest and/or Maelstrom and setting a list of descriptors that will give you the fantasy flavour you want, (ii) a stripped-back version of Runequest, HARP and/or Rolemaster, or (iii) a stripped-back version of Basic D&D, OD&D and/or T&T.

Option (i) will give you a "modern"/indie-sort of game, that uses conflict resolution and features PCs grounded in a flavourful word via there descriptors.

Option (ii) will give you a gritty game, perhaps defaulting a bit more to low magic, with PCs grounded in a flavourful world via their skill and spell lists that feed into the task resolution system. Weapon, spell, armour and skill lists will have to be kept pretty concise if you're to keep to your page limit. Both RQ and RM give good models for short but punchy monster stat blocks.

Both (i) and (ii) will mean that the design of the PCs dictates a fair bit of the direction of play, at least initially, because PCs come into play with a lot of pre-existing baggage. They're therefore likely, I think (although obviously not guaranteed) to default to serious, even earnest, play.

Option (iii) will give you a bit more of a wahoo-game, I think (even if the death rates for low level PCs are high), in part because the PCs are quicker to create and bring less baggage with them at the start. In a game like (iii), the early sessions of play will have a bigger influence on setting the tone for the PCs, and for the game as a whole.

 

[nedjer]

You want complete rules and flavor, in 24 pages and 10,000 words or less?

How about a million dollars and a pony, while you're wishing?

Consider, for a second that you are talking about verbiage on the order of a novelette or the short end of a novella. Not a whole lot of space for both flavor and crunch, in there. It is like asking that you have one granola-bar sized hunk of food, have it be 100% of your RDA of all nutrients, and have it taste good, too!

The granola-bar is also going to have zero room for good layout, decent typography and innovation. The latter maybe supports the analogy as it doesn't matter what bits of rubberised fruit they stick in the granola bar, it still tastes like a granola bar.

 

[Reynard]

The granola-bar is also going to have zero room for good layout, decent typography and innovation. The latter maybe supports the analogy as it doesn't matter what bits of rubberised fruit they stick in the granola bar, it still tastes like a granola bar.

I assume you have never seen or read The Adventures of Baron Munchausen (sp?) RPG?

 

[nedjer]

I assume you have never seen or read The Adventures of Baron Munchausen (sp?) RPG?

I haven't and may, therefore, be quite wrong. I was thinking in terms of a 'full fantasy' system or, perhaps more accurately, generic.

Was playing a clever (please excuse) niche RPG about cats the other day for a blog post. Great little RPG in many ways (beautiful presentation) but at 50 pp it didn't give enough places to go in terms of fantasy world-building/ the fingertip means to framework multiple settings, and scenarios, at speed. The short sections on combat, skills, choice of 'races', 'items', 'missions', encounter tables, etc . . . didn't offer a springboard to generic fantasy or easy open-ended gameplay.

 

[Reynard]

I haven't and may, therefore, be quite wrong. I was thinking in terms of a 'full fantasy' system or, perhaps more accurately, generic.

Was playing a clever (please excuse) niche RPG about cats the other day for a blog post. Great little RPG in many ways (beautiful presentation) but at 50 pp it didn't give enough places to go in terms of fantasy world-building/ the fingertip means to framework multiple settings, and scenarios, at speed. The short sections on combat, skills, choice of 'races', 'items', 'missions', encounter tables, etc . . . didn't offer a springboard to generic fantasy or easy open-ended gameplay.

There's a lot to be said for allowing the users to actually use the product. If, for example, one could produce a set of rules for duels and courtly intrigue in 10K words, you would have a complete Musketeer game, even if the group has to create the nation and adventures within.

 

[nedjer]

There's a lot to be said for allowing the users to actually use the product. If, for example, one could produce a set of rules for duels and courtly intrigue in 10K words, you would have a complete Musketeer game, even if the group has to create the nation and adventures within.

Couldn't agree more but I need more a framework/ fountain to sketch stuff out for me real fast. In and out-game. Cutting out magic items, 'further' advancement, thought necessary combat, plenty of monsters, spells and treasures to drop in from gives too much to build rapidly in or out of the sandbox.

I've retired from 300, 700 and 7,000 page rule sets, but a plank ain't going to cut it - I need a boat to sail the sea

. . . and if anyone can explain why the word fountain appears in the post I'd love to know

 

[TheNovaLord]

an over-arching mechanic, that covers everything

ditch the d20 to avoid clash/comparison

make it a simple target Number mechanic like Savage Worlds

Try to use d6's only, but not massed dice pools

12 pages rules/crunch
12 pages background/fluff

assume, unless widely different, folk know what a longsword looks like, and what a dwarf looks like

release your adventures in a similar 50:50 way, say 6 pages on the area/context concerend in the adventure and 6 pages of crunch BUT dont add new rules etc to these 'area' books