A Far Out Rant

[The Grumpy Celt]

I hate that the Far Realm has become the ultra-evil realm!

I think the idea is that the Far Realm is supposed to be incomprehensible, but that is harder to grapple with intellectually, or convey in terms of game text or art, than is evil, so the Far Realm usually comes across as EVIL.

 

[Hussar]

One problem though: the Far Realms aren't Evil.

They might be antithetical to life as we know it, but so is the Elemental Plane of Fire to an ice paraelemental, but that doesn't make it Evil.

The Far Realm is just different, dangerously different, based on utterly divergent concepts and laws of reality than the Great Wheel. Evil might not even be a basic concept of alignment in its conception of reality. It's dangerous to being from the Great Wheel, and the feeling is mutual because exposure to our reality seems to be harmful, painful, and maddening to beings from the Far Realm. In fact this mutual harm actually motivates one major denizen of the Far Realms to seek to prevent contact between the two seperate realities.

The Far Realms isn't Evil. It isn't about Evil. Fiends are Evil. The Far Realms may be based on Lovecraft's work, but it's not Evil taken up to 11 in the Spinal Tap way. You'll find the heart of Evil in the Gray Waste, not in the paradoxical wonderland of the Far Realm.

Edit: the Far Realms aren't about Chaos either. It operates by its own set of laws, just ones that are different from ours, might not make sense to us, and ones based on concepts alien to our minds. Glip'xoth the Uvuaduum will take the same perspective on the laws and concepts of the Great Wheel multiverse.

Fair enough. The plane itself may not be evil, but, the inhabitants certainly are. I'm not sure where the "exposure to our reality seems to be harmful" comes from, but, I am sure that Far Realms critters go out of their way to kill, liquify and/or eat everything they come across.

As I said before, there is no amoral alignment for intelligent creatures in D&D. Just because it's alien and doesn't think like us doesn't somehow excuse it from being evil when it hideously tortures and twists the minds of everything it comes in contact with. Animals get the pass because they aren't sentient. In D&D, everything over an Int of 3 has an alignment. If the creature wantonly slaughters, cripples, maims and drives people insane, it's evil, by D&D definitions of alignment.

 

[deClench]

That's a good point. Should make them beyond alignment, so far so that alignment based effects have no impact on them. (Also makes them more powerful)

What a beautiful idea! Maybe a tenth "alignment"? Perhaps "amoral," to reiterate Hussar. Or perhaps simply a lack of alignment. It could be a "racial" feature for the Far Realms denizens. It certainly wouldn't be appropriate for every game, but it could make for an interesting occasional challenge for players.

As you say, the obvious effect is the immunity to alignment-based magic. This is both beneficial and detrimental, but I think, it would be much more of a benefit for them. What negative aspect could we add to make this a more balanced and fair option?

I think this would be a great way to add to the total otherworldliness of the Far Realms' denizens.

 

[Henry]

In D&D, everything over an Int of 3 has an alignment. If the creature wantonly slaughters, cripples, maims and drives people insane, it's evil, by D&D definitions of alignment.

There you go, thinking in terms of D&D alignments, again!

I think that D&D closest approximation of the character of far realms beings is indeed evil, because their interactions are automatically antithetical, in a "collateral damage" sort of way. However, taken to their logical conclusion (logic applied to Far Realms beings! Now that's a stretch) the Lovecraft-inspired Far Realm would not seek to dominate, it would simply seek to exist, thrive, awaken, what have you, and the very activities would result in death. From D&D perspective, their actions are evil; but they aren't evil outside of the D&D term. They're as evil as a human killing the ants that he trods over; I'm not even sure they acknowledge other beings as "sentient".

But I think someone creating a Far Realms NPC who is in the traditional mustache-twirling evil mould would be doing it a disservice. It's more in a Cthulhu "why won't my damned alarm clock go off?" frame of thinking.

 

[Creeping Death]

Fair enough. The plane itself may not be evil, but, the inhabitants certainly are. I'm not sure where the "exposure to our reality seems to be harmful" comes from, but, I am sure that Far Realms critters go out of their way to kill, liquify and/or eat everything they come across.

Lions in Africa would be evil then, right? The Far Realms critters are supposed to be incomprehensible, maybe they kill for malignant purposes, for food, or out of pity. Maybe they can't understand how those things in the great wheel put up with themselves, they must be in so much pain. Maybe we are beneath their notice. When walking through a field do you worry about every bug that may be crushed beneath your footsteps?

As I said before, there is no amoral alignment for intelligent creatures in D&D. Just because it's alien and doesn't think like us doesn't somehow excuse it from being evil when it hideously tortures and twists the minds of everything it comes in contact with. Animals get the pass because they aren't sentient. In D&D, everything over an Int of 3 has an alignment. If the creature wantonly slaughters, cripples, maims and drives people insane, it's evil, by D&D definitions of alignment.

But then by D&D, Demons and Devils can not be redeemed. If the alignments says "Always Evil" then it can't be redeemed and if the alignment says "Always good", it can't be corrupted.

 

[deClench]

But I think someone creating a Far Realms NPC who is in the traditional mustache-twirling evil mould would be doing it a disservice. It's more in a Cthulhu "why won't my damned alarm clock go off?" frame of thinking.

Thanks, Henry, now all I can see is Cthulhu twirling his waxed, curly mustache and standing over a damsel tied to the tracks.

 

[Creeping Death]

There you go, thinking in terms of D&D alignments, again!

I think that D&D closest approximation of the character of far realms beings is indeed evil, because their interactions are automatically antithetical, in a "collateral damage" sort of way. However, taken to their logical conclusion (logic applied to Far Realms beings! Now that's a stretch) the Lovecraft-inspired Far Realm would not seek to dominate, it would simply seek to exist, thrive, awaken, what have you, and the very activities would result in death. From D&D perspective, their actions are evil; but they aren't evil outside of the D&D term. They're as evil as a human killing the ants that he trods over; I'm not even sure they acknowledge other beings as "sentient".

But I think someone creating a Far Realms NPC who is in the traditional mustache-twirling evil mould would be doing it a disservice. It's more in a Cthulhu "why won't my damned alarm clock go off?" frame of thinking.

Wow Henry, we basically said the same thing at near the same time.

 

[Kestrel]

What a beautiful idea! Maybe a tenth "alignment"? Perhaps "amoral," to reiterate Hussar. Or perhaps simply a lack of alignment. It could be a "racial" feature for the Far Realms denizens. It certainly wouldn't be appropriate for every game, but it could make for an interesting occasional challenge for players.

As you say, the obvious effect is the immunity to alignment-based magic. This is both beneficial and detrimental, but I think, it would be much more of a benefit for them. What negative aspect could we add to make this a more balanced and fair option?

I think this would be a great way to add to the total otherworldliness of the Far Realms' denizens.

Glad you liked it. I wouldn't bother so much with balancing it, since they are the "bad" guys after all. Maybe raise a CR or something, if your party relies on those magics. (I believe Paladins and Clerics would be hurt the most by this)

 

[Sejs]

PC nailed it.

The Far Realms arn't evil. Some of its denizens may be, but the same can be said of anywhere. The Far Realms are much more about fundamental chaos than they are about evil. The Far Realms are much more like Limbo taken to the Nth degree. Even in Limbo if there is something, even for a short while, it isn't also something else. Not necessarily so, there.

Uncaring, incomprehensible, mercurial and self-contradictory. Seas of endless becoming. It's not insanity, insanity is a singular defined state. It's a place of quantum reality unbounded where being and un-being are both equally valid, and paradox gets told to sit down and shut up.

It's not evil. Evil requires malice. Malice requires caring. The Far Realms just do not care.

 

[Vargo]

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