A Hope: Return Variability/Randomness

[CleverNickName]

I would love to see random encounters make a return to the game...when used properly, they can really add excitement, risk, and mystery. (But if they haven't figured out how to reduce combat speed to 10 minutes per battle, forget it.)

You lost me with random item prices, though. I think that would drive me crazy without a phone app to do it for me on the fly.

 

[Wiseblood]

I very strongly favor randomness. In ability scores and HP.

I understand if you don't, for me, it shapes the game in ways that picking and choosing never could. It would be wonderful if they could satisfy both of these divergent desires. The random and non-random

 

[Tony Vargas]

As the editions have been marching on, we've seen a slow move away from random determination towards fixed values - everything from point buy systems to fixed hit points (for players and monsters) to the generation of treasure parcels (with their fixed gp values).

One thing randomness does is take something out of the hands of both the DM and the player. That can add a sense of excitement and also a sense of existing in a "realistic" world (that is, a world that is uncaring and simultaneously unfair, yet impartial).

Using random determination, you can make the game more like a simulation by taking 'plot agency' away from both players and DM. This can really give you a sense of immersion - of making decisions as your character, rather than for your character.

The best example is character generation. Rolling random stats - in order - gives you something to work with. You're smart rather than quick or strong or persuasive or observant - if you can find a Wizard to teach you, you may have a bright future. You're big and strong, pick up a sword and you might go far.

To really take it all the way, you'd want to start with randomly determining race (weighted by the various populations, or better yet, birth rates of the various races), then culture (based on the distribution of that race among the campaign's cultures), then social class, and, only then, with modifiers for race, culture, and social class, would you roll some stats. If you're a noble-born human you might be more likely to have good STR & CON, because you have a goo diet - and if your ambition is to become a knight (and you were randomly born male), you're likely to realize it. OTOH, if the third noble son of a house traditionally goes into the clergy (and that's your random birth order), off you go to Cleric school.

A DM could go into great detail coming up with tables to determine all that sort of thing - especially if he's a bored 15 year old on his second summer vacation after discovering D&D...

*ahem*


...I have said too much...

 

[Herremann the Wise]

I'm not too sure about the random part but increased variability in character creation kind of floats my boat. Imagine if feats are given more prominence as they have floated, and imagine if hit point progression is attached to the acquisition of feats. Some feats have no hit points attached while others might have up to 4 or even 6hp attached to them. Imagine if feats also had ability score increases attached to them? Maybe in the middle and at the end of a chain of agility style feats, a character's dexterity was increased by 1. Perhaps some feats offer you a choice? Perhaps what background and race you choose determines what major pieces of equipment your character starts with?

What I like about this is that it not only gives you a couple more levers to even out the expanded (combat/exploration/roleplay) feats; but it increases variability in the game without the need for randomness. As much as I liked 3d6 in order back in the day, as I get older my preferences are more and more built around less randomness. But not at the expense of variability.

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

 

[Sunseeker]

The best example is character generation. Rolling random stats - in order - gives you something to work with. You're smart rather than quick or strong or persuasive or observant - if you can find a Wizard to teach you, you may have a bright future. You're big and strong, pick up a sword and you might go far.

To really take it all the way, you'd want to start with randomly determining race (weighted by the various populations, or better yet, birth rates of the various races), then culture (based on the distribution of that race among the campaign's cultures), then social class, and, only then, with modifiers for race, culture, and social class, would you roll some stats. If you're a noble-born human you might be more likely to have good STR & CON, because you have a goo diet - and if your ambition is to become a knight (and you were randomly born male), you're likely to realize it. OTOH, if the third noble son of a house traditionally goes into the clergy (and that's your random birth order), off you go to Cleric school.

A DM could go into great detail coming up with tables to determine all that sort of thing - especially if he's a bored 15 year old on his second summer vacation after discovering D&D...

*ahem*


...I have said too much...

This is a great style for some players and tables. But it really demonstrates that there are two currents within D&D when it comes to PC generation.

What comes first? The concept or the dice?

In your method a player creates a concept that fits the results generated by the dice. And that's great for some people.

I personally prefer to come up with a concept and fit the dice to it. I can certainly work with randomly generated characters, it can be fun, but in the end I tend to chafe pretty quickly under a character that I have very little personal control and investment in.

 

[Fifth Element]

It's cool because all of a sudden you have intelligent fighers and strong wizards (more rare than the other way around, but still existent.

You don't need randomness for that, man. In a Pathfinder campaign I'm playing a fighter with a 20 Int, 18 Wis, and 10s in all physical scores, using point-buy.

I'd still like to know why we shouldn't also roll for skill ranks or feats, or saving throw values. The fact that it's only ability scores and hit points discussed as being random indicates that it's a legacy thing.

 

[Fifth Element]

4d6, drops lowest simply provides way too much discrepancy, even with rerolls for low scores. How many DMs will do the opposite (or get away with it), telling someone who rolled two (or three) 18s that they can't keep them and they'll need to reroll until they get lower scores?

I play with a couple of DMs who self-identify as old-school, and who like random ability scores. But it's 4d6, drop the lowest, reroll 1s, trade points 2-for-1, and arrange as desired. With that much control over the "randomness", we may as well be using point buy.

 

[Tony Vargas]

I play with a couple of DMs who self-identify as old-school, and who like random ability scores. But it's 4d6, drop the lowest, reroll 1s, trade points 2-for-1, and arrange as desired. With that much control over the "randomness", we may as well be using point buy.

Heh. I remember using each of those in the olden days. Maybe not all at once. Another one was to add up your total stat scores, and if they were under a threshold, add points to scores of your choice up to the threshold.

There were many, many ways dreamed up of getting around the 3d6 bell-curve, that was chose specifically for it's bell-curve, it's kinda funny in retrospect.

 

[wrightdjohn]

I like rolling but for me it's really more about what your non-prime requisites are rather than your primes.

These are some methods I've thought of...
#1
You get to choose any two scores and assign an 18 and a 15 to those scores. Roll 3d6 for the rest. At least then you get the smart or charismatic fighter. The strong wizard. etc...

#2
Roll 2d6+6 six times and assign to scores. Then, if the total of all scores is below 90 then reroll the lowest score repeatedly until the total reaches 90 or more.


Also rolling or not rolling is so easy to houserule. No one should be too upset whatever they do. As a DM I can houserule in anything. And likely will.

 

[Mishihari Lord]

I like random. I really like random. As in, I love LBB Traveller totally random character generation. I've never seen ability score discrepancies interfere with fun at the table in actual play in any game I've been in. Kinda makes me think the concerns I've heard along these lines might be internet legends.

Anyway, here's a method I used for my home brew system to allow randomness without anyone feeling they've been screwed over, adapted to D&D. Roll 3d6 five times. Add up the total corresponding bonuses. The 6th ability score is the score corresponding to the negative of the bonus total. Arrange as wanted. With this system everyone gets a bonus total of zero, but the scores are still random. And you get to roll dice, which is important to lots of folks. Of course it can easily be adapted to 4d6 drop one, other point totals, and so on.