A Leap over Boiling Lava onto a Flying Wyvern

[pacdidj]

Obvious threadcrap is obvious.

This. And one of the least attractive things about the gaming scene today to my mind is that certain contingents of players feel the need to rain on others' parades like this.

 

[The Shaman]

And one of the least attractive things about the gaming scene today to my mind is that certain contingents of players feel the need to rain on others' parades like this.

And perhaps Derren feels the same way about "certain contingents of players" who advocate stuff like "+5 'that sounds awesome'" bonuses.

Expressing disagreement with the initial poster's premises isn't "threadcrapping."

I don't necessarily agree with Derren, but I can see where he's coming from.

 

[AntiStateQuixote]

Heh! Good story. Reminds me of one of my own.

My eladrin warlord leaped on to the back of a large dragon with a mounted humanoid of some sort (forgetting details).

After we killed the rider and the dragon was bloodied I readied action: Fey Step
Trigger: the dragon dies under me and I'm falling and within 5 squares of the ground

It was a blast perched precariously on the back of a dragon trading punches with the rider while everyone else flung spells and ranged attacks all around us.

 

[coyote6]

Not that the story in and of itself isn't awesome and full of daring-do that I love. But huh... hearing the mechanics of it and how the GM did the whole 'roll to see if you hang out' second chance bit... well let's just say it doesn't tickle my fancy. But that's just IMO/NMS.

It's kind of a standard thing in 3.x, though; if you jump, and just miss (fail by less than 5), you get a Reflex save to grab hold of the far edge. Then you can make a Climb check to climb up with another move action.

I don't know if somethink like that is part of 4e or not; there is the thing where you get a save to avoid being force-moved into hazards or some such. This seems close enough (and the GM apparently made the roll for the save harder, since a save in 4e is 10+). He missed by one; a save to avoid going ker-splat-sizzle seems fair. Denying it would seem kind of unfair, to me.

 

[Celebrim]

It's kind of a standard thing in 3.x, though; if you jump, and just miss (fail by less than 5), you get a Reflex save to grab hold of the far edge. Then you can make a Climb check to climb up with another move action.

Yeah, that's basically how I would run it, and I'm assuming the the DM did the 4e equivalent.

There are some complexities here he seems to have hand waved for the sake of play flow. For one, I'd think the Wyvern would get an attack of opportunity if you tried to 'grab' it like this (to say nothing about moving through its threat zone), but maybe it wouldn't work that way in 4e.

Also, I'd probably apply some sort of falling damage to both the character and the wyvern, but maybe the Wyvern was only 10' below the character or something. Also, under my house rules, this would result in a 'clinch' so the tactical situation would be somewhat more complex (and overall better for the character that attempted this stunt), but my rules are very nonstandard as far as that goes. From the sound of it though, the DM improvised a 'clinch' quite well.

On the whole though, sounds like the DM did a really good job. I can't fault the DM or the player. While this kind of thing would get annoying if it was tried all the time just for the sake of trying it, there are times when a stunt is exactly the right thing to try and the game system and the DM needs to handle that accordingly. For example, while this stunt might be a little gratuitious, pulling the same stunt when you know the Wyvern will do a coup de grace on a fallen comrade if you don't is combat RPing at its very finest IMO.

 

[Fifth Element]

And perhaps Derren feels the same way about "certain contingents of players" who advocate stuff like "+5 'that sounds awesome'" bonuses.

One difference is that Derren, as far as I can tell, was not goofing.

 

[Umbran]

And thats a fine example of why I get less and less interested in RPGs nowadays.
Instead of doing this thing because it fits the character and the situation demands it, he did it "because its cool". And many newer RPGs cater to this "coolness over immersion" thinking.

Nowadays? Nowadays?

That implies the existence of "thenadays", when apparently we didn't do things because they were cool.

I double-dog dare you to identify these thenadays. The thenadays when we (gamers, broadly) didn't do these imaginary things in large part because they were way, way cooler than anything we'd do in real life.

I'm pretty sure it wasn't in the Gygaxian Age - Fireball-tossing wizards and Conan-knockoffs wielding improbably huge two-handed swords against demons and dragons sure seems like reveling in coolness to me.

Wait, maybe it was in the White Wolf Age! That game was all about the acting and emotional immersion, right? Except the majority of folks were playing ancient undead ten times more suave, sophisticated, and steeped in cool than the lives of the people playing them. Those who weren't playing cool vampires were playing werewolves that were bundles of barely controlled righteous and bestial rage (sounds pretty cool), or magi struggling over the very essence of reality (what, maybe that's not cool?)

Nope. I'm pretty sure you won't be able to document any days where coolness wish fulfillment was clearly not a part of the RPG scene. We play "Dungeons and Dragons" because dungeons are cool, and dragons are cool. We don't play "Papers and Paychecks" because, however easy it'd be to immerse in such a world, the things in it are lame and mundane.

 

[Barastrondo]

Nowadays? Nowadays?

That implies the existence of "thenadays", when apparently we didn't do things because they were cool.

Yep. Depending on who the "we" is you're talking about, "we've" been doing stuff like this for decades, right down to figuring out bonuses to situations that come from being "dramatically appropriate." For every gamer who says "wow, that game seems to encourage play in a fashion I wish newer players wouldn't embrace," there's another who says "huh, this game handles more like we always used to play anyway." In fact, I'd be downright surprised if there's a game brought to market in the last 20 years that doesn't have some level of "we're publishing a game that reflects the way we have played for a long time."

I admit I'd be likely to give him the "second chance" as well, but that's largely because he rolled a 12 when he needed a 13. I'm superstitious enough to say that's too close not to be taken into account. The ruling of making a saving throw jibes with the overall rule of getting a save to prevent you from plummeting if you're sufficiently near a handhold, and a 12 says "you are really near that handhold."

 

[Doug McCrae]

Jumping on to a wyvern with lava below? That's pretty damn cool, any way you slice it. This kind of thing is really what gaming is all about. Having lava nearby seems to make everything better, and definitely more 'This Is The Big Damn Finale'-ish.

I actually agree that if the GM had allowed unlimited saving throws that would suck BUT in this case the player only failed by one. That to me means his PC just missed the wyvern by a whisker and is flying past. Totally reasonable to allow another save to grab it on the way down imho.

 

[Doug McCrae]

I'm pretty sure it wasn't in the Gygaxian Age - Fireball-tossing wizards and Conan-knockoffs wielding improbably huge two-handed swords against demons and dragons sure seems like reveling in coolness to me.

Yeah, snapping a staff of power even moreso. D&D isn't quite as gonzo cool as Arduin Grimoire or Rifts, but it's not far off.