D&D 5E A Lich with a Clone?

[Caliban]

I see a couple of options here:

1) The Lich's soul is now that of an undead, forever. The clones now simply serve as backup phylacteries and become undead when he animates them.

2) Destroying the phylactery destroys the Lich's soul. The clones still activate, with all his memories, but lack a soul. The effects of that are up to you.
2b) The clones activate, but only when a new soul is put in them, possibly activating randomly as wandering spirits (or a demon, intellect devourer, or other extra planar creatures that can theoretically possess someone) find them and possess them. Now you have clones of the Lich from his living days with different alignments and possibly different sets of memories wandering around.

 

[Krachek]

RAWcoholic

 

[Jer]

How do I allow the players the victory of defeating the Lich and destroy his phylactery, and have the Lich able to show up years later?

I wanted to do the Clone thing, and have hundreds of pods stashed all over the world...maybe even in the Astral Plane with copies of his spell books that all his Simulacrum copied for him.

You could still do the Clone thing. No reason it can't work even if there's a fiddly rules argument against it.

But if you've talked yourself out of it - sure typically when a lich's phylactery is destroyed the soul is destroyed and it's all good. But this particular lich? He made a pact with [insert powerful entity of your choice here] who captured his soul. Years later (whenever you want to bring him back) said powerful entity returns him to the world with whatever mission the entity has for him. It's your basic supernatural TV show formula - the big bad dies, but there's a bigger bad who brings him back.

Now I'm more of a fan of the Clone idea you came up with and will be stealing it for myself. I don't give two figs whether the rules-as-written support a villain doing it or not, but if I did I'd still allow it by saying that the villain has discovered some loophole in the lichdom process that most liches don't get but that he's found because he's awesome (I'd only allow this for one Doctor Doom-level supervillain in my campaign though - if more than one villain has this schtick it gets old. And he'd really have to be a villain along the lines of Doctor Doom or the Master or Lex Luthor or something for me to do it, but that's my personal taste).

What I would not do is just have the phylactery be a fake one and then have him show up years later. It cheapens their victory and you also have to figure out how to explain why he didn't just fake his death and then murder them in their sleep when they were least expecting it instead of going away for some lengthy time period and reappearing.

 

[steeldragons]

Another "against" for ya, if no one else has pointed it out,...

"The wizard falls dead, then rises as a lich..."
"...after the clone matures, if the original creature dies..."

The Lich is an UNdead creature. It is already "dead" ...and yet can not "die/move on."

While it makes for a great plot [and I could totally see using it myself], a Lich creating Clones to inhabit [in addition to its phylacteries, which it MUST have as part of the "lichdom" process, and I don't see an issue with making a clone that IS a -one of- phylactery], it would seem, RAW, should be off the table.

You can not "die" to become a lich and then "die again" to become/transfer to a Clone.

 

[steeldragons]

How do I allow the players the victory of defeating the Lich and destroy his phylactery, and have the Lich able to show up years later?

They destroy the phylactery. They win. Big victory. High fives and magic items all around.

Epilogue: The clone (or multiple/all of them, if he has them stashed all over) isn't "done" yet. It's not finished "cooking."

The lich's spirit goes to Limbo or Hades or however many years of torment in the Abyss for however long...and when the clone is complete, *PING* Come on down, Mr. Lichman. You're the next contestant on Inhabit this New Form.

So, their victory is "real." It's legit. Ding. Dong. The Lich is" dead...until one of his multiple well-thought out and carefully laid contingency plans to prolong his existence comes to fruition.

Also, if not obvious, his Clone is not going to be/appear as a Lich. It's going to be a younger, more "alive" version of the lich's pre-lich self. He can wander around in public, maybe he was even once handsome. "Befriend" the PCs as a wandering wizard..keeping his true self and extent of his powers a secret until he reveals himself fully at the right time...then during some random research or something, one of the PCs comes across an illustration/painting of who the lich was/what they looked like before turning all uber-evil-magic-dark-wizard...and it looks just like their new friend!

 

[Balfore]

So I ask, if the Phylactery is destroyed, where does his soul go?
Couldn't he have clone pods and spell books stashed on the Astral Plane?
And his Simulacrum have a ritual to summon him back?
Rumors of a cult following, that is scattered all over the world, led by one of his Simulacrum.

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[steeldragons]

So I ask, if the Phylactery is destroyed, where does his soul go?

Where would you like it to go? Wht makes sense for the story? If this is a powerful evil being, I would say some level of the Abyss for a CE guy, or the 9 Hells for a LE. Otherwise, trappedin Pandemonium or Hades or Gehenna or Limbo...Where do you want it?

Couldn't he have clone pods and spell books stashed on the Astral Plane?

Sure. Why not? The Astral Plane, all over the Material Plane, maybe paid or enslaved some dark fae in the Unseely Court to guard/keep one, hid one in the roots of Yggdrisal, in a giant clam at the "bottom" of the Elemental Plane of Water...again, where do you want them to be?

And his Simulacrum have a ritual to summon him back?
Rumors of a cult following, that is scattered all over the world, led by one of his Simulacrum.

One may, yes. By the spell description for 5e, you can only have one Simulacrum at a time. Casting the spell again destroys the previous one.

 

[Balfore]

Here's the rub:

I'm using a pyramid, (the floorplan of the Great Pyramid), and using one of the chambers can hold the Phylactery if need be. If the trap is triggered, then a massive stone seals off the room and it fills with a poisonous fluid.
The DC will be 35 perception check, as this is a CR 26 Boss & 3 Lichs'...all 4 with mirror image up. (With10 PCs playing & they all have 2 Boons).
This is an epic level campaign ending. (We have never played beyond 20 in the 17 years we've been playing. And I've only DMd twice. This is an attempt to repair what a previous DM did to my PC turned NPC as a villain. I had no problem of him being an NPC, it was the manner in which he was left hanging at the end of the previous campaign..if that makes sense).
The Boss will have already cast a plethora of Simulacrum, and have a cult following to potentially bring him back into one of the many clone pods he has prepared over years.

So, do I want them to be able to destroy the Phylactery, thereby killing my guy forever?
Or rob them of victory and have him respawn as a Clone far away?
.... or other thoughts?
Just looking for feedback, and you all have given great ideas

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[Balfore]

One may, yes. By the spell description for 5e, you can only have one Simulacrum at a time. Casting the spell again destroys the previous one.[/QUOTE]

Not if your simulacrum uses you as the target of 'HIS' Simulacrum, right?
Operable phrase being 'YOU can only have one copy...'


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[Caliban]

One may, yes. By the spell description for 5e, you can only have one Simulacrum at a time. Casting the spell again destroys the previous one.

Not if your simulacrum uses you as the target of 'HIS' Simulacrum, right?
Operable phrase being 'YOU can only have one copy...'

Your simulacrum is a copy of you, so he also counts as you. If he tries to create a second copy of you, he disappears.