D&D 5E A Mess of OP Characters (magic items, rest mechanics, etc.)

[Retreater]

That's A thought, but that's not going to change much right? They'll make new characters with similar issues.

Well, but enforcing from day one: no magic items, rolling random ability scores, rolling hp, grittier rest mechanics, slow advancement, etc.

 

[Mort]

Well, but enforcing from day one: no magic items, rolling random ability scores, rolling hp, grittier rest mechanics, slow advancement, etc.

No magic items: will almost certainly affect martials more than casters, you have to be careful there. The true trick is to give out FUN magic items instead of just "powerful" ones.

rolling random ability scores, rolling hp: that just increases variance. Not sure how that will make characters less powerful over all, and again will tend to overly affect martials, which tend to be more MAD.

grittier rest mechanics: may help with some of the issues you are experiencing. But ONLY if you ensure the group is not allowed to mostly dictate the pace of play. If they are, grittier test mechanics won't matter that much.

slow advancement: This one REALLY rubs me the wrong way. Ones thing I find fun about D&D over other games with flatter advancement is the actual opportunity to experience different play levels. To actually get to the higher levels and let loose. It would really bum me out if I made it to level six or so, only to be told not only would we be starting again at level 1 but that advancement from there would be ultra slow and we probably wouldn't make it higher than we currently where.

 

[Quickleaf]

I'm very familiar with the original Necropolis, and I have the new Frog God version. Which part of the adventure exactly is your party at @Retreater ?

The challenge levels picks up at the Temple of Osiris and Gorge, and again in the Tomb of Rahotep. The (optional) Underworld Osirium below the temple is also especially deadly, if they are misfortunate enough to venture there.

 

[QuentinGeorge]

Do you think an approach of "you get a rest when I say you get a rest" would be good to take? We already do milestone levelling. Treasure is at the discretion of the DM. What about recharging abilities?
Does that seem like a bad idea? Any of you do that?
Gritty rest - maybe?

Absolutely. Dm dictates when players can rest should always be the rule.

 

[AnotherGuy]

Looks like them being OP has nothing to do with it as the caster obviates everything -- which is exactly the design intent for 5e.

Unhelpful

 

[TheSword]

I’ve been in this position so many times… including recently. What worked for me was having an honest conversation with the players and they all self-nerfed themselves for the last three or four sessions of the campaign. It worked.

That might be a harder sell for teenagers. In which case I think the best options are - switch to a higher level module. If 2-3 levels higher isn’t working go 4-5 levels higher. It will be more deadly but just let them make a new character and dive back into it. Just make sure you spread the wrath around.

Other option is to write a finale and start again at the beginning (which is the one I think works best)

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Xanathar's "guidance" for magic item prices is woefully under baked. The amount of gold given out (even in standard, official 5e adventures) makes purchasing even the most potent magic items possible with pocket change.

In my experience, players tend to loot an average of around 10,000 gp from the WotC full length adventures. The average cost for magic items from XG are:

C: 45 gp
UC: 350 gp
R: 11,000 gp
VR: 35,000 gp
L: 175,000 gp

So I would expect a party, upon completing a WotC adventure, to be able to afford a smattering of common and uncommon items, or one rare. But the other thing about the guidance you claim doesn't exist is that the only magic item you can expect to walk into a shop and buy is a potion of healing. Anything else, you have to spend weeks looking for, then roll on a random table. As for encounters, the "non-existent" guidance tells you that they are balanced on the assumption that the party has zero magic items. So clearly you will need to ramp up the difficulty* if they are well equipped.

But what you describe in the OP is typical of D&D played by kids. I used to play like that when I was a kid. And no, it's not much fun for grown-ups. The solution is simple - hand over DMing duties to one of the kids.


*Has anyone mentioned that an easy way to ramp up the difficulty is to use adventures designed for higher level parties?

 

[Horwath]

No magic items: will almost certainly affect martials more than casters, you have to be careful there. The true trick is to give out FUN magic items instead of just "powerful" ones.

What are "fun" magic items?
And will players use them at all?
Or will they become "vendor trash" at 1st trade hub they run into?

In our current campaign, our DM gave us 4 really cool magic items, all homebrewed by him.
Can't describe disappointment in his eyes when we decided to "vendor" all 4 items and buy boring +1 or +2 stuff instead.
And wheelbarrow of healing potions.

rolling random ability scores, rolling hp: that just increases variance. Not sure how that will make characters less powerful over all, and again will tend to overly affect martials, which tend to be more MAD.

that just makes people suicide their PCs if they get pathetic scores.
IMHO game is balanced with point buy/array in mind.
And FIXED HPs.

grittier rest mechanics: may help with some of the issues you are experiencing. But ONLY if you ensure the group is not allowed to mostly dictate the pace of play. If they are, grittier test mechanics won't matter that much.

what will you do if party decides to rest when they reach 20*-30% of their resources?

Nuke the whole campaign so no one gets any fun?

Read your players and make encounters with that in mind, even if they only have on Deadly+++ encounter per day.

slow advancement: This one REALLY rubs me the wrong way. Ones thing I find fun about D&D over other games with flatter advancement is the actual opportunity to experience different play levels. To actually get to the higher levels and let loose. It would really bum me out if I made it to level six or so, only to be told not only would we be starting again at level 1 but that advancement from there would be ultra slow and we probably wouldn't make it higher than we currently where.

Agree,

one level every 2 or 3 sessions i a good pace.

 

[Retreater]

I'm very familiar with the original Necropolis, and I have the new Frog God version. Which part of the adventure exactly is your party at @Retreater ?

The challenge levels picks up at the Temple of Osiris and Gorge, and again in the Tomb of Rahotep. The (optional) Underworld Osirium below the temple is also especially deadly, if they are misfortunate enough to venture there.

They just got to the Temple of Osiris and are completely willing to help the good priests there defeat the evil being that is defiling their sacred waters below the Temple.
I don't find the Underworld optional - one of the key 9 artifacts is located there.
The monster down there has a breath weapon, legendary actions, nearly 300 hp, and has multi attack. It "could" bring them down.

 

[DEFCON 1]

I don't find the Underworld optional - one of the key 9 artifacts is located there.

If you want it to be optional, then it certainly is. You just move the artifact to a different location.

(Granted, it sounds like the deadliness of the area is such that you wouldn't want to make it optional and would want your party to be challenged by going there... but you get what I mean.)