A mini-rant re: Pathfinder and D&D

[Traveon Wyvernspur]

I think a good analogy is ice cream.

You can say "I like I cream" and people know what you mean, but then you get asked "what flavor of ice cream do you like best?" and you get specific like going with chocolate or schweddy balls. Some people love ALL kinds of ice cream and some only love one or two flavors. The same can be said for D&D, for all of these editions, versions, sub-types, and clones are D&D, but they are different flavors and each of us decides for ourselves which we like best. To each their own. I'm a big fan of all the flavors of D&D! In the end it's that we have fun playing in a hobby we all love, what difference does semantics make in the whole scheme of things?

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

It depends on which definition of the term 'species' you mean - there is some evidence that they were mutually cross fertile, which indicates breed, not species. (Yes, biologists, anthropologists, and zoologists still argue these things... and have slightly different definitions.)

The Auld Grump

Ligers and Tigons & Polar-Grizzly hybrids, oh my!

Add in the Li-liger, Li-tigon, Ti-liger, Ti-tigon and the recently discovered hybrid black tipped sharks, and you'll see that lack of cross-fertility as a necessary precondition for determining species has come under a lot of fire in recent decades.

Just sayin'.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

I think a good analogy is ice cream.

You can say "I like I cream" and people know what you mean, but then you get asked "what flavor of ice cream do you like best?" and you get specific like going with chocolate or schweddy balls. Some people love ALL kinds of ice cream and some only love one or two flavors. The same can be said for D&D, for all of these editions, versions, sub-types, and clones are D&D, but they are different flavors and each of us decides for ourselves which we like best. To each their own. I'm a big fan of all the flavors of D&D! In the end it's that we have fun playing in a hobby we all love, what difference does semantics make in the whole scheme of things?

I had never heard of Schweddy Balls before this.... I will have to check that out.

The Auld Grump

 

[Jack7]

Everyone knows the only real D&D is AD&D.









And Good Lord...


I'm only kidding.

 

[DM Howard]

Let me try to clarify something (once more). I'm not suggesting that anyone use different nomenclature, but that they way that the word Pathfinder is sometimes (even often) used is subtly deceptive and even erroneous. For instance, which of the following statements is true and which is deceptive/erroneous:

"I stopped playing 4E and converted to Pathfinder."

"I stopped playing D&D and converted to Pathfinder."

Well I'll weigh in and say simply from a marketing perspective both are valid as a company wants product differentiation in as many ways as possible, including name.

No they are different games, they share some of the same roots but just as an Englishman and a German are both European both are still differentiated by their country more often and more correctly than by their continent.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

Ligers and Tigons & Polar-Grizzly hybrids, oh my!

Add in the Li-liger, Li-tigon, Ti-liger, Ti-tigon and the recently discovered hybrid black tipped sharks, and you'll see that lack of cross-fertility as a necessary precondition for determining species has come under a lot of fire in recent decades.

Just sayin'.

For a zoologist the question is 'are the offspring fertile with either parent species/breed or with others of like breed?' A mule is, almost always, sterile. (Though that is also now under fire, since some female mules are fertile, though rarely.)

For that matter, there are current arguments to increase the number of kingdoms, with the establishment of domains....

Ah, Scientific American, you always add more confusion to my life....

The Auld Grump

 

[Traveon Wyvernspur]

I had never heard of Schweddy Balls before this.... I will have to check that out.

The Auld Grump

It sounds disgusting (by the name), but when you look at the ingredients, it actually may taste pretty good!

 

[Ahnehnois]

You missed the group of 3rd edition and earlier players who don't think PF is superior to those previous versions, but allow D&D to cover the entire spread of D&D games.

Actually, that's probably pretty close to the category I'm in (though I refer to 4e only as 4e). Fair enough.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

For a zoologist the question is 'are the offspring fertile with either parent species/breed or with others of like breed?'

Which is why I brought up not just the Ligers & Tigons, but also the Li-liger, Li-tigon, Ti-liger and Ti-tigons that are the result of breeding Ligers and Tigons back with Lions & Tigers.

 

[Mort]

I only refer to Pathfinder as Pathfinder when talking to gamers (on the internet or otherwise). When talking to non-gamers, I just say "D&D" (like "I run a biweekly D&D game down at the comic book store," when I am really running Pathfinder).

The reason is simple: gamers know the difference and you will confuse them if you conflate terminology. Gamers use very precise terminology, even going so far as to differentiate between the 3 flavors of basic and the Skills & Powers era Second Edition. Asking gamers to just say "D&D" is both silly and counterproductive.

Now, do I consider Pathfinder to be D&D? Yes!

This is a very good guideline!

Gamers care. Back when I was looking for players for my Ebberron campaign, I had a very interested inquiry by e-mail. The second he found out I was using 4e he became totally uninterested - no other information needed.

Non-gamers could care less and just get confused by the difference. Heck most non-gamers when the hear "roleplaying game" respond "you mean D&D?" If I try to explain the difference (say between palladium vs. D&D) they tend to get the same glazed over look as when I discuss aspects of bankruptcy law (which is weird because, frankly, the new developments in bankruptcy law are fascinating ).