A monster I intend on using, but I need CR estimates

Guilt Puppy

First Post
Shadow Guardian

Medium-Size Undead

HD: 6d12 (39 hp)
Init: +7
Speed: 30 ft.
AC: 17 (+3 Dex, +4 Deflection)
Face/Reach: 5x5/5 ft
Attack: Rake +6 melee; Touch +6 melee
Damage: Rake 1d6 + Strength Drain; Touch Strength Drain
Special Qualities: Damage Reduction 10/+1, Minor Displacement
Special Attacks: Darkness, Etherealness, Secret Laugh, Strength Drain
Saves: Fortitude +3; Reflex +6; Will +12
Abilities: Str 10; Dex 16; Con --; Int 10; Wis 16; Cha 17
Skills: Hide +13, Intimidate +13, Intuit Direction +7, Listen +15, Search +10, Sense Motive +9, Spot +15
Feats: Alertness, Blind-Fight, Combat Reflexes, Improved Initiative, Iron Will

Special Qualities:
- Damage Reduction (Su): You know the drill.
- Minor Displacement (Su): The Shadow Guardian's form is shrouded by hazy, indefinite blackness, causing all attacks to suffer a 25% miss chance.

Special Attacks:
- Darkness (Sp): Once per day, the Shadow Guardian may cast darkness as a sixth level sorceror. This may be cast, and take effect on the Material Plane, while ethereal.
- Etherealness (Su): At will, the Shadow Guardian may as a move-equivalent action become ethereal, as the spell etherealness, and remain so for any duration. Returning to the Material Plane is a free action.
- Secret Laugh (Su): As a full-round action, the Shadow Guardian may emit a chittering, barely audible laughter. All creatures within a sixty-foot radius capable of hearing must make a Will save versus Fear (DC 16) or become shaken until five rounds after the laughter ends. Maintaining the laughter requires full concentration. This ability may be used while ethereal.
- Strength Drain (Su): Any creature touched by the Shadow Guardian's attack must make a Fortitude save (DC 14) or suffer 1d6 points of permanent Strength damage.

Appearance: Rarely seen, these creatures appear as vaguely humanoid, undulating dark clouds. A Spot check (DC 20) may reveal a human skeletal structure within, barely visible beneath the blackness.

Combat: These dark guardians travel in groups of two to eight, stalking intruders while ethereal, waiting for a moment when they can catch them unprepared. Typically they will begin combat by surrounding their enemies, dropping darkness and chittering, then becoming material to attack their opponents. One will usually remain ethereal, focused on laughing, leaving to find reinforcements if the battle turns against their favor. Having no fear of death, those who become material will flee only if it is clear they will not take down at least one opponent; in this case, they make liberal use of etherealness. Otherwise, they attempt to immobilize as many combatants as possible, making repeated coup de grace attempts against those who fall.

The upshot: Real bitches if you're unprepared (touch attacks by unseen opponents nullifies both armor and dex/dodge bonuses... very nasty), but survivable (even if immobilized, their coup de grace attempts are pretty feeble). Once you drop some daylight, though, they become minor threats. Definite creeps.

Estimated Challenge Rating: 6. Using the Wraith as a base, they're just a bit tougher... Some added nasty abilities, but a little easier to hit, and Strength damage is more tolerable than Con damage. Possibly a CR 7 though... Your thoughts?
 

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May I ask why you have the etherealnesss and displacement and damage reduction instead of simply making them incorporeal?

Can they see through their own darkness? I'm assuming yes, but thy can't as written.

CR 6 seems a bit high as these are barely stronger than normal shadows. 6 is the CR of a shadow cleric 3, who can emulate all the abilites except for laughter, but they can also cast very usefull spells. I'd place this close to a 4. I'd fear a 6HD shadow more than one of these guys, especially considering their strength drain grants a save.
 

In my oppinion CR 8, +3 of HD, +1 Strengh Drain, +1 for Etherealness, +1 for Minor Displacment, +1 for Secret Laugh and finnaly +1 for DR and Darkness.

bye people
 


Happiest_Sadist said:
May I ask why you have the etherealnesss and displacement and damage reduction instead of simply making them incorporeal?

Etherealness is mainly for invisibility, and mobility... The DR/Displacement combo isn't quite as difficult as full incorporeality. Plus, keeping this separate from the etherealness does give you a few extra options in combat (bull rush, trip, et cetera).

In short though, the quickest explanation is it fits the idea I had in mind.


Can they see through their own darkness? I'm assuming yes, but thy can't as written.

Actually, I'm still torn on that, heh. It makes things a little more interesting if they can't... that way, it would be a pure ambush technique, and they'd be perfectly happy to dismiss it once they feel they're in a good position (otherwise, you'll need a crapload of daylights just for one combat.)

However, the Secret Laugh of course does not effect other Shadow Guardians.


CR 6 seems a bit high as these are barely stronger than normal shadows. 6 is the CR of a shadow cleric 3, who can emulate all the abilites except for laughter, but they can also cast very usefull spells. I'd place this close to a 4. I'd fear a 6HD shadow more than one of these guys, especially considering their strength drain grants a save.

Yep, good point. I'm thinking of going back to Con damage, as a variety of the abilities do add up to be about equal to the incorporeality. Add Secret Laugh, Darkness, and some hit dice, they're maybe one CR above Wraith's. Probably a CR 5 as is written up there.

However, I'm slightly more concerned with modelling their behavior as a group then as individuals... Four of these guys are probably going to be tougher than four wraiths (and certainly 4 shadows), or most other CR 5's... I think I'll make some last minute tweaks, and then see how it runs in game.

Thanks for the estimates.
 

Corlon said:
how do you calculate cr anyway?

Playtesting is the best way.

WotC's system (from Dragon #276) works like this

1- Take avg hp and divide by 4.5

2- To this, add +! or +2 for each SA and SQ

3- Divide that total by 3.

There's the monster's CR.
 

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