A new fighter at-will for marking multiple targets

[Daniel D. Fox]

The issue is that this power can dole out -2 to strike to FIVE potential foes with a 20 Wisdom at 1st level. That's a -10 penalty total. It completely breaks the standard mechanics set by At Will powers. All other At Will powers across classes pale in comparison to this ability.

This is far too imbalanced, even as an Encounter or Daily power at 1st level.

 

[Brain]

Playing a fighter with a decent wisdom myself and I'd take this over cleave (and keep tide of iron) in a heartbeat. I had even considered paragon multiclassing to ranger in order to pick up twin strike and using two swords just to get the ability to mark two targets each round. I'd say just make it mark 1 additional target within melee range. WisMod targets seems too good.

 

[Stalker0]

The issue is that this power can dole out -2 to strike to FIVE potential foes with a 20 Wisdom at 1st level. That's a -10 penalty total. It completely breaks the standard mechanics set by At Will powers. All other At Will powers across classes pale in comparison to this ability.

Or it just convinces 5 guys to all hit you, in which case all you did was do less damage, and take a lot more. Now, that helps your defender role, but its not better than anything else you have. Further, if a fighter has gone such a high wisdom at 1st level then he has sacrificed con and dex and strength on his way there. If someone is willing to push his wisdom that high as a fighter, I have no problem with him getting a strong benefit.

Think about this, if you have 5 guys all on you, its likely some of them are minions. What's better, giving the minion a penalty, or autokilling it with cleave?

And if I'm fighting a solo with its high AC, it sure would be nice to have reaping strike to do automatic damage instead of this at-will which would do NOTHING against a solo except less damage.

The at-will is good, but like all the fighter at-wills it has its uses. Its not automatic in every situation, and its not so good that every fighter would take it.

 

[Stalker0]

Playing a fighter with a decent wisdom myself and I'd take this over cleave (and keep tide of iron) in a heartbeat.

So your a fighter that has sacrificed valuable points in other stats in order to have a nice high wisdom so you can get really good OA's (and persumably a high will defense) and you would greatly desire an at-will that uses that wisdom?

Then I say...your welcome

The point of this at will is its good for fighters that has decided to go the high wisdom route. Just like a 20 cha rogue would take sly flourish in a heartbeat, no questions asked, I expect a high wisdom fighter to take this at will.

For a fighter with a 12 wisdom? Probably not so much, he might consider it, but cleave and tide of iron look a lot better in those instances.

 

[Kzach]

Also, if you're sticking two of them to yourself, you're taking double damage -- while handing out significantly less pain to each one. Thus, you're putting yourself in a more precarious position.

Which is the entire point of being a defender.

You haven't played WoW much, have you.

Sure Strike is meant for nobody. Cleave works just fine for 2H dudes.

It is meant for 2H and low-strength fighters or those wielding lower +hit weapons. Just because you don't get it, doesn't mean it's crap.

 

[Oldtimer]

The issue is that this power can dole out -2 to strike to FIVE potential foes with a 20 Wisdom at 1st level. That's a -10 penalty total. It completely breaks the standard mechanics set by At Will powers. All other At Will powers across classes pale in comparison to this ability.

This is far too imbalanced, even as an Encounter or Daily power at 1st level.

By that reasoning the Paladin At-Will "Valiant Strike" is imbalanced too. That power doles out +1 attack bonus per adjacent enemy. That's a +8 attack bonus total when you are surrounded. It completely breaks the standard machanics set by At-Will powers.

A first level fighter with Wis 20 fighting five enemies? Straw-man, I say.

 

[Revinor]

That said, I also agree with Perko: 1[W] seems too much for an at-will power with the given effect, though at this time it seems about right to me for an Encounter power.

Well, there is a 3rd level encounter power called Sweeping Blow which

- marks all enemies nearby (no Wis limit)
- deals 1[W]+Str to each of them
- you get +Str/2 bonus to hit if you use proper weapon

We are talking about power which
- marks almost all enemies nearby
- deals 1[W] to ONE of them
- that's it

I would say it is balanced. Yes, it is probably very useful for very defender oriented fighter, but is it bad that fighter will be able to mark more than one enemy per round? It is not like he will mark all the enemies, because it will affect only adjacent ones - so I expect it to be 2 in most cases (monsters tend to avoid touching fighters regardless of being marked or not)

If you really think it is overpowered, then what about cleave-like solution? You deal 1[W] instead of 1[W]+Str, but mark one more enemy of your choice?

 

[Nifft]

Which is the entire point of being a defender.

Yes. That makes it good.

You haven't played WoW much, have you.

Less snark, more coherent arguments.

-- N

 

[Ulorian - Agent of Chaos]

It is meant for 2H and low-strength fighters or those wielding lower +hit weapons. Just because you don't get it, doesn't mean it's crap.

There are numerous threads detailing the mathematics behind the inferiority of Sure Strike in virtually all scenarios. Please find them, read them, and disabuse yourself of the notion that Sure Strike is at all redeemable.

Math > your gut instinct about the usefulness of the power.

 

[Kzach]

Yes. That makes it good.

/facepalm

First you say it's not a good thing, then you say it is... are you arguing with yourself or with me?

I'm saying that marking two opponents every round as an at-will is a VERY good thing for a fighter.

I'm saying that marking more than two opponents every round as an at-will is TOO good.

What is it you're saying again?

Less snark, more coherent arguments.

Yeah, 'cause you never snark. Ever.

There are numerous threads detailing the mathematics behind the inferiority of Sure Strike in virtually all scenarios. Please find them, read them, and disabuse yourself of the notion that Sure Strike is at all redeemable.

Maybe you should go back and remind yourself of those scenarios.