A New Warlock Need C&C

[AnonymousOne]

So from some of the threads in the rules thread it is quite clear that the poor Warlock does not have that much bang. This analysis does not include the Hellfire Warlock PrC/Binder in the mix. However even including those classes, it still isn't going to cut it at higher levels.

As such my current project has been to up the damage output and streamline the Warlock. I'm looking for critiques and thoughts about my changes. Is it balanced?

Variant Warlock Notes

Abilities:  Same
Alignment:  Any (Normally Evil or Chaotic)
HD: d6
Class skills:  Same
Skill Points:  Same
CHANGES:
Increase Eldritch Blast
Remove DR Cold Iron
Increase Fiendish Resilience ( also change it to 1= 

1/day, 2=2/day etc.)
Remove Energy Resist
Added Fiendish Resistance (like Spellthief's Spellgrace, Bonuses to saves vs. Spells)

 

[AnonymousOne]

Nothing? really ... this means that the class is either perfect (I highly doubt it) or the sages of ENworld have abandoned the poor House Rules forum...

 

[Asurya]

several of your progressions seem quite strange to me:

• EB:
  it has 5 busrts of 3 levels. As you finish with 15d6, why not index EB on BAB (beginning at 1d6 at 1st level)?
• invoc known:
  old progression gave you one new slot at the level of new grade;
  yours give one new invoc 1 level *before* Lesser grade and Dark grade is gained.
  True, as you didn't change the attribution mechanism, players will exchange one of their invoc when they gain there upper grade, but it's less straight-forward than the original
  (disregarding that, when you gain Dark, you could prefer to exchange a Least for a Lesser/Greater as the Least in question became irrelevant with your Dark newly gained)

I also don't get why you removed the DR, which was a pretty solid ability considering how cold-iron weapons are far from the norm, and that the powerful Barbarian has to wait 7th level to get his?

anyway, hope my critiques will help

 

[Aus_Snow]

Nothing? really ... this means that the class is either perfect (I highly doubt it) or the sages of ENworld have abandoned the poor House Rules forum...

. . . or, more likely by far, that it can take a bit of time for people to respond to house rules threads. As it always has been, and probably always will be.

Oh, and someone already has (other than me, that is.)

 

[AnonymousOne]

several of your progressions seem quite strange to me:

• EB:
  it has 5 busrts of 3 levels. As you finish with 15d6, why not index EB on BAB (beginning at 1d6 at 1st level)?
• invoc known:
  old progression gave you one new slot at the level of new grade;
  yours give one new invoc 1 level *before* Lesser grade and Dark grade is gained.
  True, as you didn't change the attribution mechanism, players will exchange one of their invoc when they gain there upper grade, but it's less straight-forward than the original
  (disregarding that, when you gain Dark, you could prefer to exchange a Least for a Lesser/Greater as the Least in question became irrelevant with your Dark newly gained)

I also don't get why you removed the DR, which was a pretty solid ability considering how cold-iron weapons are far from the norm, and that the powerful Barbarian has to wait 7th level to get his?

anyway, hope my critiques will help

Right, I'll have to rework the Invocations known, I completely forgot about that.

I pulled the DR simply because it was powerful. I felt that pulling the DR helped to balance out the fact that the class is getting the bonus to all saves vs magic AND a much improved Eldritch Blast.

I was also looking at making the Fiendish Resistance a +5 progression every 3 levels but felt that was a bit to much.

The original post now has the Invocation problem fixed.

 

[Zelc]

Why not just leave most things the same, except change the Eldritch Blast progression to match how the BAB progresses +1d6 (so the Warlock ends with +16d6)?

The biggest worry here is stuff like Eldritch Glaive (16d6 with a full attack is pretty good), but this would be a quick fix that's easy to remember.

 

[AnonymousOne]

Why not just leave most things the same, except change the Eldritch Blast progression to match how the BAB progresses +1d6 (so the Warlock ends with +16d6)?

The biggest worry here is stuff like Eldritch Glaive (16d6 with a full attack is pretty good), but this would be a quick fix that's easy to remember.

Because then I think that the class gets a bit too much. I'm trying to keep the class streamlined and at the same time balanced.

I felt like the class has a lot of random parts that could stand to be trimmed and other parts strengthened.

 

[Asurya]

OK, sth bugged me somehow with your chart, so I checked my CArc... and I found out: you REDUCED invoc known!! why in the nin hells did you do that?
If anything Warlock suffer from lack of versatility, reducing access to what give that to them is couter-productivce don't you think?

I mean, Warlock is not a blaster (well he can be, but that's not all he can do), direct damage is not the best course of action anymay for caster in their right mind.

If you want to emphasise on damage dealing, you could use two different progression, as in the Dragonfire Adept (Draconomicon): one for the "utility" invocs, one for the shape / essence.

hope that helps.

BTW, just style nitpick but you could print your chart like this:

          [B]HD:[/B] d6
         [B]BAB:[/B] medium
       [B]Saves:[/B] low Fort, low Ref, high Will
[b]Skill points:[/b] 2
[b]                                                      Invocations known[/b]
[u][b]Lvl  Special                                            Lt  Lr   G   D [/u][/b]
1    EB 1d6                                              1   -   -   -
2    EB 2d6, Detect magic                                1   -   -   -
3    EB 3d6                                              2   -   -   -
4    Deceive item, Fiendish resil. 1                     2   -   -   -
5    EB 4d6                                              2   1   -   -
6    EB 5d6                                              2   1   -   -
7    EB 6d6                                              2   2   -   -
8    Fiendish resil. 2                                   2   2   -   -
9    EB 7d6                                              2   2   1   -
10   EB 8d6                                              2   2   1   -
11   EB 9d6                                              2   2   2   -
12   Imbue item, Fiendish resist. 2, Fiendish resil. 3   2   2   2   -
13   EB 10d6                                             2   2   3   -
14   EB 11d6                                             2   2   3   -
15   EB 12d6                                             2   2   4   -
16   Fiendish resil. 4                                   2   2   4   -
17   EB 13d6                                             2   2   4   1
18   EB 14d6                                             2   2   4   1
19   EB 15d6                                             2   2   4   2
20   Fiendish resil. 5                                   2   2   4   2

[EDIT] OK, I didn't say it before but, you messed up with the access too.
Here is a diff:

        ORIGINAL             YOUR
    [b]Invocations known  Invocations known[/b]
[u][b]Lvl[/u][/b] [u][b] Lt  Lr   G   D [/u][/b]   [u][b] Lt  Lr   G   D [/u][/b]
1     1   -   -   -      1   -   -   -
2     2   -   -   -      [COLOR=Red]1[/COLOR]   -   -   -
3     2   -   -   -      2   -   -   -
4     3   -   -   -      [COLOR=Red]2[/COLOR]   -   -   -
5     3   -   -   -      [COLOR=Red]2[/COLOR]   [COLOR=Green]1[/COLOR]   -   -
6     3   1   -   -      [COLOR=Red]2[/COLOR]   1   -   -
7     3   1   -   -      [COLOR=Red]2[/COLOR]   [COLOR=Green]2[/COLOR]   -   -
8     3   2   -   -      [COLOR=Red]2[/COLOR]   2   -   -
9     3   2   -   -      [COLOR=Red]2[/COLOR]   2   [COLOR=Green]1[/COLOR]   -
10    3   3   -   -      [COLOR=Red]2   2[/COLOR]   [COLOR=Green]1[/COLOR]   -
11    3   3   1   -      [COLOR=Red]2   2[/COLOR]   [COLOR=Green]2[/COLOR]   -
12    3   3   1   -      [COLOR=Red]2   2[/COLOR]   [COLOR=Green]2[/COLOR]   -
13    3   3   2   -      [COLOR=Red]2   2[/COLOR]   [COLOR=Green]3[/COLOR]   -
14    3   3   2   -      [COLOR=Red]2   2[/COLOR]   [COLOR=Green]3[/COLOR]   -
15    3   3   3   -      [COLOR=Red]2   2[/COLOR]   [COLOR=Green]4[/COLOR]   -
16    3   3   3   1      [COLOR=Red]2   2[/COLOR]   [COLOR=Green]4[/COLOR]   [COLOR=Red]-[/COLOR]
17    3   3   3   1      [COLOR=Red]2   2[/COLOR]   [COLOR=Green]4[/COLOR]   1
18    3   3   3   2      [COLOR=Red]2   2[/COLOR]   [COLOR=Green]4[/COLOR]   [COLOR=Red]1[/COLOR]
19    3   3   3   2      [COLOR=Red]2   2[/COLOR]   [COLOR=Green]4[/COLOR]   2
20    3   3   3   3      [COLOR=Red]2   2[/COLOR]   [COLOR=Green]4[/COLOR]   [COLOR=Red]2[/COLOR]

with [COLOR=Green]green[/COLOR] being in favor of the player, [COLOR=Red]red[/COLOR] in his defavor

NOTE: I made a mistake in my other post when I said you can trade lower grade invoc for new ones, sorry only ToB do that
[/EDIT]

 

[AnonymousOne]

Just FYI I didn't Mess up.

I understood exactly what I was doing. The point was to offset the massive power increase in the EB. 12th Level Quicken SLA = 18d6 of damage Or an invocation followed by an 9d6 blast.

Now how do you propose offsetting the power increase? The only way to do it is to drop the Warlock to a D4 hit die or pull the invocations ... unless you think the class will not be overpowered by leaving the invocations alone. If that's the case I'll set it back to the original.

 

[Machiavelli]

Asurya, according to my copy of Complete Arcane, you can trade out a single invocation for any other of the same or lower level, every single time you choose a new invocation. That would be 11 opportunities to do so, for the original warlock.

Anon, it looks to me like you're trying to create a bit of an arcane/demonic archer here. All of that extra damage from eldritch blast comes strapped onto a character with crappy hit points, crappy armor, and no special mobility options (you reduced the invocations known, putting additional pressure on the slot often used for Fell Flight), mean that dealing the eldritch damage in melee is not a very wise option. With the base warlock, at least there was the damage reduction, which would stack nicely with the same from the Fey Heritage feats.

What you end up with is an archer with a huge pool of damage dice, but very limited full attack ability (Quicken Spell-Like Ability approximates a full attack, sort of), and limited options available to him for varying his damage types (less invocations known, after all). At least you made Greater invocations much easier to get (9th lvl instead of 11th), so bypassing Spell Resistance is only an Achilles' heal for a short while.

I take it an arcane archer is precisely what you were aiming for? (pun intended)