A(nother) Non-Vancian Spellcasting System: The Fatigue System

[airwalkrr]

This thread is inspired by Vyvyan Basterd's thread here. I wish to take a different approach. As I noted in that thread, the ideal spellcasting system would encourage casters to conserve their power while not depleting them of their ability to cast. In other words, magic should be taxing enough to discourage its use unless absolutely necessary, such as combat.

The D&D (Vancian) spellcasting system does one thing well (at least regarding classes like the cleric and the wizard); it explains why spellcasters do not rule the world. As a mage, you might be able to cast fireball and take out a battalion, but if you only memorized one fireball, you are in trouble when the next battalion crests the hill. But a wizard apparently uses just as much effort to cast magic missile as he does to cast meteor swarm. The Vancian system fails to provide a way to fatigue clerics and wizards other than simply making them run out of spells to cast.

Suppose there were a system that balanced spellcasters by measuring the amount of fatigue that character had suffered as a result of spellcasting. This fatigue could weaken and eventually incapacitate or even kill the spellcaster depending upon the power of the magical energy the spellcaster was trying to use. The only way to end this fatigue is rest. Here is my prototype for such a system:

Spellcasters each receive a number of Fatigue Points (FP) equal to their hit points. When casting a spell, the spellcaster loses a number of FP equal to 4 x spell level. Casting a 0-level spell costs 2 FP. Once a character is out of FP, he becomes fatigued. This fatigue can only be removed with 8 hours of rest. Each time a character who is out of FP casts a spell, he must make a Fortitude saving throw with a DC equal to 15 + (spell level x 2). A successful save means the character takes nonlethal damage equal to half the FP cost of the spell. A failed save means the character takes hit point damage equal to the full FP cost of the spell. A character who takes hit point damage from a failed saving throw to cast a spell becomes exhausted. Although the nonlethal damage and hit point damage can be cured normally, this exhaustion can only be removed with 1 hour of rest. An exhausted character who fails a saving throw to cast a spell falls unconscious for 1 hour unless he is healed to full hit points. A character can continue to become exhausted until his FP is restored to full. A character resting for 8 hours restores his FP total to full. Bards receive half their hp in FP. Sorcerers receive double their hp in FP. Undead and construct spellcasters make Will saves in place of Fortitude saves and cannot become fatigued or exhausted, however all damage received for spellcasting is lethal damage.

This system has several advantages. First, it encourages spellcasters to save their highest level spells for when they are truly needed, because if they do not, they might be fatigued or exhausted by that time. Second, it allows casters to continue casting spells as long as they can pass their Fortitude saves. However, it usually won't allow them to go on for long, even with healing, unless they wish to travel while exhausted, and even then they are likely to pass out from time to time, even with high Fortitude save since a '1' still threatens to knock them out. Third, it preserves the idea that clerics can cast more spells per day than wizards (they have better hit points, and therefore more FP, plus they have better Fortitude saving throws).

This system probably has flaws too since I have not given it much thought, but it is an intriguing idea. Does anyone have any comments or suggestions for improving it?

 

[Spatzimaus]

Short version: It works, although I'd avoid creating an entirely new "pool" stat.

Moderate version: A purely drain-based system has some large advantages; you can't just unload everything on the one big bad guy as easily as a slot-based caster, but you don't always have to worry about running out of spells if the DM threw too many encounters at you in one day.
Frankly, I like it a lot more in practice than the Vancian system; it just FEELS more like how I'd picture magic working.

Long version: in my homebrew, there are only two "caster" classes, the Wizard (slot-based caster, WIS based, casts a lot like a 3E Cleric but with Wizard-like specialization) and the Channeler (freeform, INT based, and at each level-up he "buys" caster levels in each school separately). The Channeler works quite a bit like your suggestion.

you can basically skip this next paragraph, and just replace all future mentions of Mental Damage with either Subdual or Lethal/Physical, your choice)
Instead of adding a new pool of points, we just created a new damage type, Mental Damage. Mental damage can knock you unconscious (adding to Subdual), and it can't kill you outright. If your Mental + Physical damage ever exceeds your base HP, you begin bleeding and need to be stabilized. This means it's possible to need stabilization while still having tons of HP remaining, so it's remotely possible for purely mental attacks to kill you, but not likely. But most importantly, if your Mental damage ever exceeds your base HP, you go into a coma, meaning even if the damage is later healed you won't get right back up. Mental damage naturally heals slowly and also isn't healed by the usual cure spells; we made a spell called Clarity (based on the EQ one, not the D&D one) that healed Mental damage slowly over time and gave an extra saving throw to wake up from a coma.
Also, any time you take more than 1 point of Mental damage, any spellcasting for 1 round afterwards is disrupted as if you had taken continuous damage during casting (meaning Concentration helps a bit). The classic magic missile now does 1d3+1 Mental damage per bolt, making it a bit weaker but it also helps as a counterspell.

Now, here's the catch.

For each spell level you cast, you take 4 Physical damage (cantrips deal 2). Since the Channeler is only a d6 HD class, it wouldn't be long before you killed yourself from your own spells, and that's assuming no one's actually trying to hurt you at the same time.

But then, there's the Channeling Check. Basically, the Channeler uses his skill to try to mitigate the drain; he rolls 1d20, plus his caster level in the appropriate school (max is his character level), plus INT mod, minus Armor Check Penalty, versus a flat DC of 10. There are a few circumstance modifiers, like +2 to any elemental spell cast near a pure elemental source, and you can't ever Take 10 or 20 (it's not a skill check).

If he fails, the spell is lost automatically and you take the full damage. This sounds worse than it is; once you get a few caster levels in a school, and have a decent INT mod, it's pretty much impossible to fail.
For each point of success, 2 points of Physical damage are turned into 1 point of Mental. Once all the damage is Mental, each additional point of success reduces 1 point of Mental, to a minimum of 1 point of damage. If the caster didn't succeed by enough to remove the Physical damage, he has to make a Concentration check (DC 5 + Physical damage + spell level) to avoid losing the spell.
(The math sounds worse than it is. We just keep a reference table on hand.)

Also, no form of damage reduction or immunity can prevent the drain damage. Creatures immune to Mental damage (constructs, undead) are incapable of channeling.

In practice, what this means: Let's say I've got a 6th-level Channeler, who has somewhere in the neighborhood of 30 HP.
He can cast 1st-level spells pretty much at will; he'd only ever take the minimum drain, and that's easy enough to offset with mental healing.
He can cast 3rd-level spells pretty well, taking something 2-6 points of mental damage each time; this isn't quite sustainable, but a few is all you need in the course of a single encounter.
If push comes to shove, he can even go all out and throw a single 6th-level spell (the cap is equal to your caster level, but there are some other limitations), assuming he specialized in its school. It'd really cost him; on an average roll he'd still take something like 15-20 total damage, and some of that would still be Physical (meaning he might be disrupted). But that might be enough to end the fight altogether.

 

[airwalkrr]

Interesting system Spatzimaus. It seems a bit too complicated for me to want to use it wholesale so I might mine it for ideas, but I definitely like the flavor.

 

[Spatzimaus]

It seems a bit too complicated for me

It is a bit on the complex side; when most of your players are programmers and such who can do this stuff in their heads, it's not quite so bad, but it's not really a good general-purpose thing. Like I said, we'd keep a spreadsheet around to quickly look up the results, but most of the time it wasn't that difficult to keep straight.

A much simpler version:
> Each spell deals 4 Subdual damage per spell level.
> You make a straight caster level check vs DC 10.
> If you fail, the spell is lost, you take the full amount, and it's Lethal damage instead of Subdual.
> Every point of success reduces the amount of damage by 1, to a minimum of 1 point.

That's really all you need, although I'd also suggest changing the rules for how subdual damage heals. cure spells heal it too well, and there's no spell that only heals Subdual, so I'd remove the ability to heal subdual from the cures and create a new spell for that.

Math:
DC10 balances the 1d20 in the caster level check, meaning your average margin of success equals your caster level.
The benchmark spell level is the highest a Wizard/Sorcerer of the same level could cast, i.e., ~casterlevel/2. At 4/level damage, this means you'd take a max of 2*casterlevel damage, and the check would reduce this by half.
If you cast a spell half as high, you'd typically take the minimum damage, so an 8th-level channeler could cast 1st or 2nd level spells more or less freely. By 20th level, you could cast anything up to 5th like that.

 

[Quartz]

I don't like the idea of yet another stat to manage. For instance, what happens if your HP are affected by a spell?

If you want to go this route - which is very cool - can I suggest you investigate totalling the spells already cast, or the levels of spells already cast, and working the DC of the saving throw off that?

 

[airwalkrr]

You mean a floating DC that changes depending on how many spells you have already cast?

 

[Quartz]

Yes - the idea being it gets harder to work magic the more magic you've already cast.

For instance make the caster throw (d20 + level + stat bonus + other bonuses) against (10 + spell level + no of spells already cast). So at L1 you have the fumble-footed apprentice (Int 12) or genius apprentice (Int 18), while at L20 you have the archmage (Int 30) who can fire fireballs for quite some time. Something on which to chew anyway.

 

[Bladesong]

Over the years we have been trying to find a more simplified way of handling spells, and we have never been 100% happy.
We just started trying this next method, and after one session we have not yet encountered any problems.
Basically, whenever you cast a spell you make a Con check against a DC of 10 + the level of the spell you cast. If you make the check you can cast another spell the following round (making another check). When you fail the check you must wait for a number of rounds equal to the level of spell you cast before you can cast again and you are fatigued.
The next step we were thinking of taking is that if you fail the check you are fatigued and can wait the specified number of rounds for the fatigue to wear off, or you can try to cast while fatigued with a -2 penalty to the check. If you fail the check again you are exhausted and must wait for a number of rounds equal to the spell just cast to reduce the condition to fatigued. If you cast while exhausted you do so at a -4 penalty and if you fail this check you are unconscious for a number of rounds equal to the level of spell that knocked you out.
Anyway, it is less complex than other things we have tried and so far I like the idea. We'll have to play a few more times to see how it pans out...

 

[airwalkrr]

That is an unusual take, bladesong. It seems quite penalizing though. At high levels I have to wait a long time if I fail that check.

 

[Bladesong]

That is an unusual take, bladesong. It seems quite penalizing though. At high levels I have to wait a long time if I fail that check.

You don't have to wait, you just have an increased chance of moving to exhausted and then on to out cold and only if you are trying to throw nothing but 7 - 9th level spells. Of course the wait is only if you fail the check.

Also I made a mistake above. I stated Con check instead of Fort save (and I have NO idea why).

In any case, if a 20th level wizard with a Con of 12 throws two 9th level spells in a row (with a +7 on his save vrs. DC 19) and fails both saves, he is exhausted, but both spells still went off. He still has a good chance to pull off a few 0 - 3rd level spells with a +3 to the save (-4 for exhaustion) for the next 9 rounds provided he doesn't fail another save, and then he'd be at +5 for another 8 rounds (1 had already passed) while waiting for the fatigue to wear off.

The idea is that they do not run out of spells but they also cannot cast Meteor Swarm round after round without running the risk of passing out.

As I said, we'll have to try it out a bit longer, but it seemed to work fine for character levels 1 - 4, and spell levels 0 - 2.