A party that comes out on the other side of T1-4 will be...

[thedungeondelver]

Just curious - I'm running a group through T1-4 THE TEMPLE OF ELEMENTAL EVIL and I was planning on dovetailing into S4 LOST CAVERNS OF TSOJCONTH and then of course into WG4 THE FORGOTTEN TEMPLE OF THARIZDUN. S4 is noted as being for characters 8 through 10, while WG4 being aimed at the (rather broad) levels 5 through 10.

I don't think this group'll be too powerful for either of those modules as long as I keep 'em turned up full blast.

Thoughts, fellow 1e'ers?

(I bring this up here because my group scrupulously checks on my forum for just such topics and I don't want to tip my hand!)

 

[13garth13]

It's been awhile since I ran my group through T1-4 (and it took months and months and months.....I LOVED IT!! Of course, the atrociously high body count for the PCs did become a little discouraging for the players around about level three of the dungeon so that did mitigate my mitigate my fun a little....

I seem to recall that out of a party of four, one was 9th level, two were 10th and one was 11th level. But, as I said, that was YEARS ago, thus details are fuzzy to say the least... .... .....

Cheers,
Colin

 

[the Jester]

I seem to recall the party I was dming being 7th-11th upon completion of ToEE in 1e, but my recollection could be off.

 

[Delta]

Well, you've got Quasqueton's (in)famous analysis done by adding up all the monsters & treasures in classic modules (linked below). There is of course some good debate around it -- Q's trying to bolster a thesis that levelling times are fundamentally the same between 1E and 3E. Quasqueton calculates levels 7-10 at the end of T1-4. Posters like T. Foster document levels 6-7 in his own play.

http://www.enworld.org/forum/genera...isons-ad-d1-b-ed-d-d-d3-updated-7-1-07-a.html

 

[Grimstaff]

8-10 is a pretty safe bet. I've been involved in this a couple of times, once as player and once as DM and both times we were able to go strait into the Giant series.

 

[thedungeondelver]

Well, you've got Quasqueton's (in)famous analysis done by adding up all the monsters & treasures in classic modules (linked below). There is of course some good debate around it -- Q's trying to bolster a thesis that levelling times are fundamentally the same between 1E and 3E. Quasqueton calculates levels 7-10 at the end of T1-4. Posters like T. Foster document levels 6-7 in his own play.

http://www.enworld.org/forum/genera...isons-ad-d1-b-ed-d-d-d3-updated-7-1-07-a.html

I've read that; quasqueton has...his opinion.

 

[grodog]

I think it's going to depend, in a large part, how thorough your players are as explorers Bill: ToEE, like the G and D modules, can be breezed through in such a way that you miss a LOT of big treasure items. I've never run T1-4 to completion: my players have always abandoned it somewhere between levels 2 and 3, in general. No one has ever gotten into Zuggtmoy's restricted sub-level, either, or gotten to the nodes, and few of the players have dug as deep as level 4.

I would guess that if you "finished" T1-4 pretty thoroughly that you'd be in the 6th-8th range if you were starting fresh with 1st level PCs in T1. That's assuming a fair amount of attrition, of course. If the players are good enough to survive straight through---and they're sufficiently thorough to find hidden loot well---then my hunch is that they'd be more in the 7th to 10th range coming out of ToEE, especially if they plumb the nodes in detail.

 

[Philotomy Jurament]

I would guess that if you "finished" T1-4 pretty thoroughly that you'd be in the 6th-8th range if you were starting fresh with 1st level PCs in T1.

It's been a while since I've run T1-4, but that sounds right, to me, if I remember correctly. PC attrition was a factor (i.e. there were some "lost" xps due to PC deaths).

 

[thedungeondelver]

I think it's going to depend, in a large part, how thorough your players are as explorers Bill: ToEE, like the G and D modules, can be breezed through in such a way that you miss a LOT of big treasure items.

No doubt; my read-through of the module has many places where I simply can't conceive of players finding the treasure just by looking for it (the earth elemental room is one: even with detect magic, they won't find the treasure cache - each is buried under six feet of earth).

I've never run T1-4 to completion: my players have always abandoned it somewhere between levels 2 and 3, in general. No one has ever gotten into Zuggtmoy's restricted sub-level, either, or gotten to the nodes, and few of the players have dug as deep as level 4.

Hopefully the nodes will keep them interested, but I fear this may happen, too. I think it's a danger inherent in all quests, be they pre-written modules or your own ("We're how powerful? Okay, why are we trying to track down and kill the Kobold King who's at best as strong as one of us was at 1st level? Let's hire an adventuring group to do it for us...")

I would guess that if you "finished" T1-4 pretty thoroughly that you'd be in the 6th-8th range if you were starting fresh with 1st level PCs in T1. That's assuming a fair amount of attrition, of course. If the players are good enough to survive straight through---and they're sufficiently thorough to find hidden loot well---then my hunch is that they'd be more in the 7th to 10th range coming out of ToEE, especially if they plumb the nodes in detail.

This seems to be the considered opinion; the group is around 4th level going in so I imagine they'll be a skoshe higher. It will leave me the excuse to crank WG4 and S4 up to 11, if nothing else.

 

[ExploderWizard]

I would suggest running WG4 The Forgotten Temple of Tharizdun before S4 The Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth. Unless these adventures are going to be heavily modified your party may end up perishing in S4 if they attempt it first. If they should be successful and complete nearly all of the encounters then WG4 will be kind of a pushover by the time you get to it.

Completing WG4 first will give the PC's a needed boost prior to S4 without making that adventure so easy. YMMV of course but I have run these several times and found that to be the case.