A PC died in my campaign on Saturday

[catsclaw227]

In our Saturday night AoW game, a PC died. And it kinda sucks.

This may not seem strange to most, but I really don't like DMing a PC death. In my style of DMing, I am not an opponent of the players. I very rarely have a PC death because it sucks for a player to become emotionally invested in a PC over many sessions, only to have the dice decide for them that they die.

First, let me give you the particulars...

The halfling rogue was sneaking down deep into a cavern, through narrow and treacherous passages, about 90 seconds ahead of the party. He had Darkvision still on, and when he got down there, he saw a high priest performing a ritual with a single (Grimlock) guard next to him and two more at the entrance of the cavern. Thinking there was a summoning going on, the rogue chucked a thunderstone to disrupt the Grimlock priest and started to run. A nice shot with the thundestone, but a terrible initiative later, he was grappled by two guards near the entrance and dragged to the high priest.

The wizard's familiar sent empathic message back to his master with "Halfling Captured" in the subject line, and the party fighter barbarian rumbled down after him.

Now, the fighter/barbarian has been known to be rash and make quick, foolish decisions in the past that created problems, and now he was moving full move 40', with a good balance check down the poor footing to save the halfling. The party cleric and wizard were moving at 20' and the priest had poor balance checks (-6 with armor and 8 DEX).

The ftr/brb rumbles down and when he gets into the cavern the high priest cast a hold person. one terrible save later and he is held and a grimlock moves to Coup De Gras. One full round later the PC ftr/brb is dead -- even with action point usage.


Now...... As a DM I hated the scenario. The players started arguing again about how the guy with the fighter acted all brash again, and he defended saying he was trying to save the halfling, and I was bummed that Hold Person was so damn powerful for a low level spell. And that CDG is so... final.

Eventually, the party won the battle (barely, and with a prodigious use of Action Points), but the PC death hung in the room like a dark cloud.

I know a lot of DMs and players aren't as affected by PC deaths, and some are downright flippant about it, but in my game, our group game, it's a big deal. I generally don't let dice kill PCs, only players can kill their own PCs through bad decisions. And in some sense a bad decision (that had happened before) was made to charge into the room without regard for consequences. But it was totally cinematic cool, and yet the RAW says he should die.

I did mismanage a part of the scenario, and though it wouldn't have effected the outcome of the HP/CDG, I want to let the player decide if his PC is truly dead, or if he is just badly wounded, maybe give him some permanent reminder of the battle.

He was reluctantly stating up a Warblade (*which he DOES want to play eventually*), but he liked his PC a lot and he's become part of the growing PC story.

So, for now, I have presented the player with the choice, to decide before the next session (this coming Saturday). We'll see what happened.

How do you all handle these sort of situations? What do you think of PC Deaths,? DO you feel that the RAW can be so lethal at times, or do you play, "Let the dice fall where they may..." and be done with it?

How do you handle the fact that it sucks to have a PC die when you have invested time and emotion into it? (I am not talking about obsessive freaky emotion, we are all normal dudes with wives, GFs, families, jobs and stuff. No one in the group would be considered a social misfit be general society.)

Thanks for your feedback.

 

[freyar]

Well, I'm not sure what the choices are you've given the player, but what level is the party? Can they afford raise dead, etc? Surely that could be a reasonable option.

 

[Stalker0]

First off its sounds like you have a good party there.

The rogue tried to be a hero, but he wasn't stupid about it, he did something to disrupt a ritual but knew to run at the same time. He rolled a bad initiative and failed on the grapple checks so that sucks.

Then the party rushed to save their friend. Again, its good that your group is heroic like that.

As for the CDG, the only thing I will mention is do you know that CDG provoke AOOs? So if the party had gotten to their barbarian friend, they could have gotten some free hits on the CDGing guard, possibly even a grapple to stop the CDG in the first place.


but all that aside, while many don't like PC deaths, at least this one wasn't some casual waste, the barb died trying to save his party members in a heroic fashion. Your the dm, so of course if you don't want him to die, then he doesn't die. Bear in mind though that if PC death is too hard it does lose some of its meaning. Also if you save the barb this time but next time let a character die, the players may feel you are being arbitrary. However, the idea of letting the barb live with but with some lingering wound is always good roleplaying.

If you do choose to keep the barb dead, the best way to handle it is with roleplaying. Let the party mourn the loss of their friend, encourage them to tell stories of his exploits, especially the rogue who probably wouldn't be alive except for his courage. Feel free to bring up the barb's name time to time among npcs. This makes the player feel very cool, making a memorable character is always a goal in dnd.

 

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

PC deaths are a part of the game. I couldn't play in one where it wasn't a real possibility. If I wanted guaranteed success, I'd play a video game where I could save and reload.

That said, I'm not a big fan of CDG in combat situations. Hard to tell from your description -- did the bad guys know the rest of the party was there? Most times, I wouldn't CDG (and my players wouldn't, either) if there was an enemy at hand. It just struck us as too 'gamey' to have an enemy turn it's back to impending attack to kill an enemy that was already down.

 

[Urbannen]

I've had the same problem in my group. One of the players always plays a fighter who rushes in headlong into every encounter and has refused to retreat no matter what the odds. After two-and-a-half months of playing, he's on his third character. No other character has died so far.

I don't give my players action points, but they started at 10th level for the adventure and get maximum hit points. I give them CR 10 foes or less, and I have no intention of fudging a die roll.

However, if character death is such a big deal to you, then you have to fudge die rolls. It's your only choice. D&D is a deadly game. If your characters take big risks, no matter how noble their intentions, they will eventually die. It's a statistical certainty.

Both the rogue and fighter took big risks. The rogue exposed himself to an enemy group of superior power. The fighter ran alone into a dangerous situation of which he had no knowledge. When the players make these kinds of decisions, fudging die rolls is the only way to keep them alive in the long run.

 

[Mark]

In our Saturday night AoW game, a PC died. And it kinda sucks.

This may not seem strange to most, but I really don't like DMing a PC death. In my style of DMing, I am not an opponent of the players.

The death of a PC does not make the DM an opponent. DMs are facilitators, the senses of the characters that allow the players to explore a game-world. The players make choices and the DM explains the consequences. Some DMs prefer to have a tacit agreement with the players that there will be no character deaths, but that requires the players to limit their exploration lest they force a DM into a position where he has no choice but to break that unspoken agreement. Unfortunately, that then becomes a situation where the player has virtually dared the DM to break the agreement, thus causing the adversarial relationship that the original agreement was meant to avoid. Better, IMO, for the DM to simply remain neutral from the start and for all consequence-options to always be on the table.

 

[billd91]

I'm not exactly sure of the timing of the situation from your summary. When did the grimlock move forward to do the coup de grace? I find it often happens that DM-controlled characters are too well coordinated, all lines of communication being internal to the DM's brain. Would the grimlock have thought of doing the CdG himself or would he have moved to the opening where the sounds of other PCs rushing to the rescue are obviously coming? Did the priest tell him to do it? Was there any delay in doing so?

Any delay could have given the barbarian a chance to get his action in,which is another save, and do so while turning on the rage (another +2 to the save).

I'm not saying that you did anything wrong. But I do find that, on discussion boards like this, there's usually more discussion about how to challenge a party with a tough fight than there is any recognition that an NPC group under the DM's control is almost always more efficient than any similar group would be in real life (barring very intense training and planning beforehand). That efficiency can get PCs in trouble very quickly, even if the challenge ratings aren't skewed against them.

One other thing I consider when thinking about a CdG: what weapon to use. My NPCs often don't use their most powerful melee weapon when doing one if, in real world terms, they seem too unwieldly for the precision work. Against a heavily armored opponent, for example, they dig out a dagger so they can more handily stick it into the gaps in the armor or at the throat. It "feels" more appropriate to do it that way. The NPC selects the appropriate realistic tool for the job even if the rules favor another tool. If that ends up meaning the Fort save to resist ends up being a little lower... no worries on my part and it gives the PCs a break.

 

[Vyvyan Basterd]

The RAW are not the issue here. You used a combat tactic that went against your DMing style. You are not forced to CdG helpless opponents according to RAW. You could have instead had the grimlock attcak normally (the barbarian is not only flat-footed when helpless but his AC is reduced by 5 as if his Dex were zero) and had him move into position. Or as others have said, move into position to ready an attack against the other approaching party members.

From your apparent disappointment at the result, it almost sounds like you misinterpreted the rules for attacking a helpless foe and assumed that all such attacks are CdGs.

 

[bento]

I think the game would be much less interesting if there wasn't something at risk. Even in the most careful of circumstances the dice go the wrong way. A heroe's death, while sad, should never make you feel like you shouldn't challenge your players to make real decisions.

As for the CdG, if you think it was a common Grimlock tactic, then it was well in the realm of the game.

 

[mhensley]

Don't fault the dm here. The players are clearly to blame. They split the party not once, but twice! Anybody playing D&D should know better than to go off on their own.