A PC died in my campaign on Saturday

[Pseudopsyche]

It does suck when your character gets unlucky and dies, but for me, these risks are a part of the game. They are what make the character's actions heroic.

Even then, death does not have to be permanent. Even if the PCs are not powerful enough to cast Raise Dead, perhaps they can petition somebody for help, go on a side quest to revive their fallen friend, with the dead PC's player playing another character temporarily to help. Or the PCs could just drink a toast to the barbarian at every tavern, some shaking their heads sadly at his foolish headstrong charge and the halfling fiercely defending the friend who probably saved his life. Maybe he'll always wonder why it wasn't him who died, since he was every bit in the bad guys' power before the barbarian arrived. Ultimately, it's up to your players to decide how the party will react.

I do think it could be a good idea to have a group discussion with your players on how to handle death. Find out beforehand how they feel, and decide as a group what kind of game you're running, if you don't have any strong opinions about it. Just be aware if you have players who grow attack to their PCs but who use death-defying tactics while you use ruthless tactics, something's gotta give.

 

[shilsen]

How do you all handle these sort of situations? What do you think of PC Deaths,? DO you feel that the RAW can be so lethal at times, or do you play, "Let the dice fall where they may..." and be done with it?

How do you handle the fact that it sucks to have a PC die when you have invested time and emotion into it? (I am not talking about obsessive freaky emotion, we are all normal dudes with wives, GFs, families, jobs and stuff. No one in the group would be considered a social misfit be general society.)

I think of death as one among many possible consequences for PC failure in the game, and personally find it one of the more boring and least interesting ones. I don't care for PC deaths and so I have rules in place which make them very improbable, though still possible. I allow PCs to use action points (when we used to utilize them) or swashbuckling cards (now) to survive a blow or effect which would have killed them, dropping to -9 hp and stable. They cannot be healed to consciousness before the encounter ends and may be killed if intentionally targeted by an enemy before that. Without that rule, we would have one PC fatality every two sessions. You might want to try something like that.

 

[Pseudopsyche]

Don't fault the dm here. The players are clearly to blame. They split the party not once, but twice! Anybody playing D&D should know better than to go off on their own.

I agree with your first sentence. Nothing that the OP described makes me think that anybody made any "mistakes" in playing the game.

I will say that the OP should consider that how he handles this situation will set the tone for the rest of his campaign. At one extreme, the players could become ultraconservative if this death is permanent, even though this particular death required some unlucky dice rolls. At the other extreme, the players could become even more brazenly foolhardy if death doesn't become an option. What is actually the case will only become apparent through time, or if the entire groups sits down together and figures out what kind of game they want to play.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Don't fault the dm here. The players are clearly to blame. They split the party not once, but twice! Anybody playing D&D should know better than to go off on their own.

I think it's a little harsh to calll the party rogue scouting 90 seconds ahead "splitting up the party," or implying it shouldn't be done.

As for the OP, how did the CdG happen? Was the Grimlock already in melee with the Ftr/Barb? Because you said "moved to" CdG the Ftr/Barb, when in fact CdG is a full round action. So, if he wasn't already next to him, it'd have taken at least one round to ge to him first. As for Hold Person, that gives an initial save, and then a new save every round on the victim's turn. Barbarian seems like he should've had at least 2 chances, if not 3, to make the save.

 

[Oryan77]

I wouldn't worry about the death. Everything was legit and neither you nor your players didn't anything wrong at all.

Think of it this way....sometimes PC's get lucky, but sometimes the bad guys get lucky also. That Hold Person spell almost saved the bad guys life

I hate killing PCs also, and I've only had 3 PC deaths in my DM'ing career. But it gets easier each time it happens I always try to make the best of it. Here's an idea you can throw at the player of the Barbarian PC:

Since he wants to play a Warblade, ask him if he'd like to play it temporarily and eventually play his Barbarian again. You could create a scenario where the Barbarian's body is recovered by Bigger Badder Evils Guys, resurrected, and then tortured and brainwashed into serving them. Then an adventure or two down the road, the PCs are confronted with the now brainwashed Barbarian who attacks the group because he doesn't remember them and he's following his evil master's orders. If the PCs try to jog his memory, he hesitates when attacking the PCs and his master gets ticked off and blasts the Barbarian with spells. The barbarian then remembers his friends and attacks the master. The Warblade player can sacrifice the Warblade by having him die a heroic death attacking the wizard. Then after the battle he can get his Barbarian back. You and the player can plan all of this out beforehand and it might be a cool surprise to the rest in the group.

This is just a spurt of the moment idea with lame specifics, but if you liked the idea then I'm sure you can tweak it out to be much better and fit your campaign story arcs. I was just trying to think of a way for a lower level PC to get resurrected if the group was unable to do it themselves.

 

[blargney the second]

You have my sympathy - killing a PC can really suck sometimes as a DM.

The dice did a TPK in my game on Saturday night, and I was too tired to think of a creative way out. I ended up doing a nasty squirm/fudge to avoid it all. I still feel kind of crappy about it.
-blarg

 

[mhensley]

I think it's a little harsh to calll the party rogue scouting 90 seconds ahead "splitting up the party," or implying it shouldn't be done.

In the real world I wouldn't consider it as a bad idea, but this is D&D where 90 seconds means 15 rounds. There's really no hope for any single pc to survive 15 rounds if they get ambushed by something that's meant for the entire party to fight. So no, I don't think it's harsh to say that they foolishly split the party. If you want your rogue to scout, cool, but don't let him get any further than a round or two ahead of the main group.

 

[catsclaw227]

Well, I'm not sure what the choices are you've given the player, but what level is the party? Can they afford raise dead, etc? Surely that could be a reasonable option.

Not yet, they are borderline 5th level, and too far from a city that would realistically have that kind of resource.

As for the CDG, the only thing I will mention is do you know that CDG provoke AOOs? So if the party had gotten to their barbarian friend, they could have gotten some free hits on the CDGing guard, possibly even a grapple to stop the CDG in the first place.

Well, he got to the room with the rogue about 3-4 rounds ahead of the rest of the party -- footing in the cavern passage leading up to the room was steep and fairly treacherous, and he went as quick as he could and with a good balance check he was able to take 10 to make it. The rest of the party (wizard and cleric) moved at the speed of the cleric (slow and poor balance check).

The death of a PC does not make the DM an opponent. DMs are facilitators, the senses of the characters that allow the players to explore a game-world. The players make choices and the DM explains the consequences.

I totally agree with this, I wasn't suggesting that an adversarial DM was the only kind that lets PCs die. Simply that there are some that like to play DM vs. Party and find ways to kill them, under the guise of setting up a challenge.

I allow PCs to use action points (when we used to utilize them) or swashbuckling cards (now) to survive a blow or effect which would have killed them, dropping to -9 hp and stable. They cannot be healed to consciousness before the encounter ends and may be killed if intentionally targeted by an enemy before that. Without that rule, we would have one PC fatality every two sessions. You might want to try something like that.

That's an interesting rule... Hmmm...

I've been DMing a long time, and this would be my 4th PC death of any note. (not talking about beer & pretzels deaths, or those where the player decided he wanted to play a different style of PC and his original PC was "sacrificed" in the name of story.

As for the OP, how did the CdG happen? Was the Grimlock already in melee with the Ftr/Barb? Because you said "moved to" CdG the Ftr/Barb, when in fact CdG is a full round action. So, if he wasn't already next to him, it'd have taken at least one round to ge to him first. As for Hold Person, that gives an initial save, and then a new save every round on the victim's turn. Barbarian seems like he should've had at least 2 chances, if not 3, to make the save.

The Ftr/Barb failed his first save against hold person, the Grimlock was only 5 feet away, and took 5' step and started CDG as full round action, PC failed again, Grimlock hit with CDG, PC failed Fort save against CDG damage. The Grimlock performed the CDG at the behest of the High Priest master that cast the Hold Person.

All around it was a tough time, and there have been a lot of good ideas and thoughts here. I appreciate the advice.

In all the time I have been DMing, I don't think that I have had a group discussion at chargen about how Death would be handled by me and how the players wanted to have me handle it. I think I will start next session with this plan, find out what everyone thinks now that a week has passed, and get a concensus.

 

[DestroyYouAlot]

Why play a reckless barbarian character if you're so attached to him that you can't deal with him dying?


Sound like the player set himself up with some unrealistic expectations and expected you to validate them.

 

[Aluvial]

That sucks. I would try a laptop next time. Less room on the table...