A question for super science geeks!

[Pbartender]

A plague like the 1918 Flu coupled with modern mass transit has ancillary effects I don't want. The Illithids want somebody leftover, and a virulent, drug-resistant plague with lots of possible vectors could make their victory pyrrhic- they conquer an empty world and lose their favorite food source. Plus, plagues don't cause damage to the infrastructure, which removes a lot of campaign motivations.

Of course, the plague needn't be an overtly deadly one. What if it's a plague that effectively "lobotomizes" humans... Doesn't necessarily kill them, but turns them into fairly docile zombie-slaves that are especially susceptible to mind control. That leaves a large population of not only food, but also a sizable slave labor force.

Infrastructure damage comes from the Illithid's battle to subdue any remaining resistance amongst the humans who are naturally immune to the disease, and also from opportunistic survivors -- looters, survivalists, petty dictators and the like.

PCs in search of modern technology either have to steal it from the Illithids, or pick over the left over scraps from ruined towns and cities.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

What if it's a plague that effectively "lobotomizes" humans... Doesn't necessarily kill them, but turns them into fairly docile zombie-slaves that are especially susceptible to mind control. That leaves a large population of not only food, but also a sizable slave labor force.

Just thinking like an Illithid for a second...

Wouldn't that affect the taste?

Firstly you are assuming every university is in a highly populated area

Point taken, but having lived there, I wouldn't exactly call Manhattan, KS highly populated.

Two<snip good point>

Thirdly<snip good point>

Its true that a lot of tech types live away from the cities, but I have to ask how much of a difference that will make. I'd imagine that most of those guys are fairly well removed from the entry-level tiers of their professions.

Generally speaking, people tend to specialize their skillsets to advance in their profession. My Dad, an MD specialized in Allergy/Immunology is technically qualified to do all kinds of medical procedures...but I wouldn't trust him to do brain surgery or a boob job. I'm a JD/MBA, but I've concentrated my skills in Entertainment/IP/Marketing...you don't want me handling your criminal case.

An engineer who designs dynamos might have a vague recollection of the formulae & processes used to purify the metals and create the alloys, ceramics and plastics used in its construction, but could he come up with the info to rebuild the factories neccessary to make them (including the physical plant)? Or where to find the raw materials to use in the factory if they managed to rebuild it? Can they operate the oil well to get the petrochemicals refinery producing again?

More to the point, would that engineer have the skillset to survive the collapse of civilization? Hunting? Gathering non-poisonous flora? Agriculture? Self-defense from predatory humans (and, given this is a fantasy world, humanoids & demihumans)?

I mean, I was involved in Scouting for years, and the amount of wilderness/survival training I've retained into my adulthood wouldn't fill a thimble.

Undoubtedly, there are scientists & engineers, etc., who have those kinds of skills, but I'd wager that they are few in number and widely dispersed.

Even if all books were destroyed we wouldn't have to wait thousands of years to regain our tech from scratch. It is common knowlege <snip>

I have to question the phrase "It is common knowlege." I suspect that your experiences in the sciences may have colored your perceptions.

I know a ridiculous amount of stuff about art, literature & music. I'm often surprised how little people know about those subjects- even about stuff from their own lifetime, much less stuff from ages past.

In contrast, I know a little about forging iron into steel, steam engines, and the like...but I don't have the knowledge to find the iron to make into steel. I don't have the knowledge about how to create a forge that can handle those kinds of temperatures.

I know even less about an internal combustion engine. Yeah, I know it requires mixing fuel & air and controlled explosions, but I know jack about cams, shafts, gearing and all the details neccessary to make one, much less make one work.

Now, I used to have a nice multivolume science & technology encyclopedia...but I've long since gotten rid of it. A bright individual who saved such a thing could be a very important man post-ELE.

But the question is does that person survive long enough to make a difference?

 

[Pbartender]

Just thinking like an Illithid for a second...

Wouldn't that affect the taste?

Perhaps... but not necessarily for the worse. Consider it the equivalent of a tenderizing marinade, or fermentation through the addition of yeast.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

[Illithid]Mmmmmm...Brain Veal.[/Illithid]

 

[Pbartender]

What's more insidious, the lobotomizing disease gives the victim a sense of well-being. Infected humans aren't just docile cattle slaves, they're completely content docile cattle slaves who are compelled to proselytize that contentment to any one who isn't and to turn in anyone who refuses.

Or, to put it another way, "I, for one, welcome our new mind flaying overlords."

 

[pbd]

Just thinking like an Illithid for a second...

Wouldn't that affect the taste?



Point taken, but having lived there, I wouldn't exactly call Manhattan, KS highly populated.


Its true that a lot of tech types live away from the cities, but I have to ask how much of a difference that will make. I'd imagine that most of those guys are fairly well removed from the entry-level tiers of their professions.

Generally speaking, people tend to specialize their skillsets to advance in their profession. My Dad, an MD specialized in Allergy/Immunology is technically qualified to do all kinds of medical procedures...but I wouldn't trust him to do brain surgery or a boob job. I'm a JD/MBA, but I've concentrated my skills in Entertainment/IP/Marketing...you don't want me handling your criminal case.

An engineer who designs dynamos might have a vague recollection of the formulae & processes used to purify the metals and create the alloys, ceramics and plastics used in its construction, but could he come up with the info to rebuild the factories neccessary to make them (including the physical plant)? Or where to find the raw materials to use in the factory if they managed to rebuild it? Can they operate the oil well to get the petrochemicals refinery producing again?

More to the point, would that engineer have the skillset to survive the collapse of civilization? Hunting? Gathering non-poisonous flora? Agriculture? Self-defense from predatory humans (and, given this is a fantasy world, humanoids & demihumans)?

I mean, I was involved in Scouting for years, and the amount of wilderness/survival training I've retained into my adulthood wouldn't fill a thimble.

Undoubtedly, there are scientists & engineers, etc., who have those kinds of skills, but I'd wager that they are few in number and widely dispersed.


I have to question the phrase "It is common knowlege." I suspect that your experiences in the sciences may have colored your perceptions.

I know a ridiculous amount of stuff about art, literature & music. I'm often surprised how little people know about those subjects- even about stuff from their own lifetime, much less stuff from ages past.

In contrast, I know a little about forging iron into steel, steam engines, and the like...but I don't have the knowledge to find the iron to make into steel. I don't have the knowledge about how to create a forge that can handle those kinds of temperatures.

I know even less about an internal combustion engine. Yeah, I know it requires mixing fuel & air and controlled explosions, but I know jack about cams, shafts, gearing and all the details neccessary to make one, much less make one work.

Now, I used to have a nice multivolume science & technology encyclopedia...but I've long since gotten rid of it. A bright individual who saved such a thing could be a very important man post-ELE.

But the question is does that person survive long enough to make a difference?

But humans tend to form communities. In any gathering of, say, 100 or so people you will have a decent cross-section of knowledge and skills. Not in every case, but in some this will be enough to get things off the ground. Plus the point about re-inventing technologies being easier, since it is know to have worked previously.

If, after the meteor attacks, there are not 100 people left near enough to form a community, then in my opinion it doesn't matter because the planet will be dead anyway (i.e. so much dust and ash was sent into the atmosphere that all life will die during the permanent winter). Seriously though, that would be a cataclysm on a scale much larger than what caused the extinction of the dinosaurs.

 

[Deset Gled]

I had a thought today (inspired by a construction site) that one of the best places to look for usable metal for weapons would actually be in cement walls. Most concrete today is reinforced by steel rebar. I would think that the concrete would provide a fairly decent protection for the steel (disclaimer: I know a bit about metals, but almost nothing about concrete), and the steel would be ideally shaped for easy hammering into a sword or metal club. Especially in earthquake zones (where higher quality rebar is used), this walls might be a good place to look for metal.

Anybody know how cement walls stand up to the test of time, for the purpose of protecting the steel?

 

[Nadaka]

Concrete is less hard than most raw stone and is susceptible to both chemical and physical erosion. IIRC most types of concrete will completely more or less disintegrate after a few centuries at most under normal outdoor weathering.

 

[Slife]

Well, to answer the OP, tungsten would be a very nice metal to work with magically if the whole brittleness thing was overcome. A sword that can survive temperatures at the surface of the sun* would be wonderful for enchanting with fire spells. A flaming tungsten sword would be perfect for sundering weapons.


*Probably. It's in the same ballpark at 1 atm, and IIRC increasing pressure increases melting point.

 

[Switchblade]

More to the point, would that engineer have the skillset to survive the collapse of civilization? Hunting? Gathering non-poisonous flora? Agriculture? Self-defense from predatory humans (and, given this is a fantasy world, humanoids & demihumans)?

I mean, I was involved in Scouting for years, and the amount of wilderness/survival training I've retained into my adulthood wouldn't fill a thimble.

Undoubtedly, there are scientists & engineers, etc., who have those kinds of skills, but I'd wager that they are few in number and widely dispersed.


I have to question the phrase "It is common knowlege." I suspect that your experiences in the sciences may have colored your perceptions.

Less my experience in sciences, more my obsession with BBC history documentaries on at prime time. Such as showing how to use pre iron age technology to smelt copper on a beach using little more than a few leather bellows a few nights ago on Coast.

I've seen similar things for early iron forges, the only technical difficulty is trial and error with the bellows and leather working.

There are bucket loads of documentaries out there which are fairly popular across a broad range of people. Also a fair wack of archeologists and historians develop skills such as carpentary to recreate past technologies to see how things work, so it isn't just scientists who are usefull at helping recover technology.

As for a steam engine, that is GSCE level, still at a level where the sciences are still compulsory learning. The principles that hot air rises, simple cogs and what shape are used to make a fan is pretty simple. Hardly the Malard but a simple steam engine could be worked out from scratch in a year or two in their spare time, or a matter of days for someone who knew what they were doing.

Uh, my view on engineers might be bias by my larping but 90% of the engineers I know are outdoor sorts and fairly handy with a sword or bow if push came to shove. The other non larping 10% are even more in favour of the out doors.

Agraculture? More fishing or hunting in these parts. No problem.

It's not as if everyone needs these skills. One or two can teach others and the skills needed to survive spread.