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5E A quirky combo

Warpiglet-7

Adventurer
So i know this is odd but have read and reread this.

can you use greenflame blade or booming blade with the tavern brawler feat?

An improvised weapon is a weapon. Gfb and bb require attacks with weapons.

it would seem per raw, you can use an improvised weapon with gfb or bb.

if you do, per the feat, it would appear to trigger a free bonus action grapple.
 

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Leatherhead

Possibly a Idiot.
Depends on how big a stickler for timing you are, or how willing you are to abuse convoluted item holding rules to your advantage.

Here is a rule clarification regarding when an improvised weapon counts as a weapon:


Now in order to cast Green-Flame Blade or Booming Blade, you need to have a material component or a focus (which in this case can be a weapon). However, an improvised weapon only counts as a weapon while you are attacking with it. However, however, whenever you cast either blade spell: "As part of the action used to cast this spell, you must make a melee attack with a weapon against one creature within the spell’s range, otherwise the spell fails."

Some DMs will let you get away with it because an action is basically an instantaneous effect, and all the triggers would therefore happen simultaneously. Other DMs would say "No, you need to have the components available before you start casting the spell." Meaning you would need both a normal weapon (or focus) and an improvised one to trigger the spell, and also an improvised weapon and a free hand to start the grapple. The trick with that set up is that you can drop an item as a free action between the Action to cast a spell, and the Bonus Action granted by attacking with an improvised weapon.

Assuming that is too much juggling for your blood, or you just don't want to drop anything, there are two ways to get around that.
Firstly, you can offset your requirement to hold a focus in various ways. Some classes (Like Clerics and Artificers) can wear a focus. Sorcerers can use Spell Points. And there are a few items that can functionally do the similar tasks.
Secondly, you could use natural weapons. They always count as weapons. Allowing you to prep the spell with your claw, make the attack with a bottle(or whatever) then make a grapple with your empty hand (which can also be the same hand that had claws on it)
 

Warpiglet-7

Adventurer
Depends on how big a stickler for timing you are, or how willing you are to abuse convoluted item holding rules to your advantage.

Here is a rule clarification regarding when an improvised weapon counts as a weapon:


Now in order to cast Green-Flame Blade or Booming Blade, you need to have a material component or a focus (which in this case can be a weapon). However, an improvised weapon only counts as a weapon while you are attacking with it. However, however, whenever you cast either blade spell: "As part of the action used to cast this spell, you must make a melee attack with a weapon against one creature within the spell’s range, otherwise the spell fails."

Some DMs will let you get away with it because an action is basically an instantaneous effect, and all the triggers would therefore happen simultaneously. Other DMs would say "No, you need to have the components available before you start casting the spell." Meaning you would need both a normal weapon (or focus) and an improvised one to trigger the spell, and also an improvised weapon and a free hand to start the grapple. The trick with that set up is that you can drop an item as a free action between the Action to cast a spell, and the Bonus Action granted by attacking with an improvised weapon.

Assuming that is too much juggling for your blood, or you just don't want to drop anything, there are two ways to get around that.
Firstly, you can offset your requirement to hold a focus in various ways. Some classes (Like Clerics and Artificers) can wear a focus. Sorcerers can use Spell Points. And there are a few items that can functionally do the similar tasks.
Secondly, you could use natural weapons. They always count as weapons. Allowing you to prep the spell with your claw, make the attack with a bottle(or whatever) then make a grapple with your empty hand (which can also be the same hand that had claws on it)
Very good analysis. Don’t know that I would use the combo but it just occurred to me. Sounds like it really comes down to very fine splitting of the order and timing of things and like all things, the desire of the dm.
 

MarkB

Legend
Depends on how big a stickler for timing you are, or how willing you are to abuse convoluted item holding rules to your advantage.

Here is a rule clarification regarding when an improvised weapon counts as a weapon:


Now in order to cast Green-Flame Blade or Booming Blade, you need to have a material component or a focus (which in this case can be a weapon). However, an improvised weapon only counts as a weapon while you are attacking with it. However, however, whenever you cast either blade spell: "As part of the action used to cast this spell, you must make a melee attack with a weapon against one creature within the spell’s range, otherwise the spell fails."

Some DMs will let you get away with it because an action is basically an instantaneous effect, and all the triggers would therefore happen simultaneously. Other DMs would say "No, you need to have the components available before you start casting the spell." Meaning you would need both a normal weapon (or focus) and an improvised one to trigger the spell, and also an improvised weapon and a free hand to start the grapple. The trick with that set up is that you can drop an item as a free action between the Action to cast a spell, and the Bonus Action granted by attacking with an improvised weapon.

Assuming that is too much juggling for your blood, or you just don't want to drop anything, there are two ways to get around that.
Firstly, you can offset your requirement to hold a focus in various ways. Some classes (Like Clerics and Artificers) can wear a focus. Sorcerers can use Spell Points. And there are a few items that can functionally do the similar tasks.
Secondly, you could use natural weapons. They always count as weapons. Allowing you to prep the spell with your claw, make the attack with a bottle(or whatever) then make a grapple with your empty hand (which can also be the same hand that had claws on it)
Actually, in the spell description, the weapon is specified as being a material component, not a focus. Which means that, as a material component without a listed value, it can be replaced by any spell focus that is valid for the class.

So, you could use the spell so long as you were wielding an improvised weapon in one hand and a spell focus in the other - or you could use your spell focus as an improvised weapon.
 

Leatherhead

Possibly a Idiot.
Actually, in the spell description, the weapon is specified as being a material component, not a focus. Which means that, as a material component without a listed value, it can be replaced by any spell focus that is valid for the class.

So, you could use the spell so long as you were wielding an improvised weapon in one hand and a spell focus in the other - or you could use your spell focus as an improvised weapon.
I'm a little confused here: Why did you quote me to say the things I already said?
 



Iry

Hero
Yeah. This is a hilarious case. The improvised weapon is only a weapon during the attack, which might or might not qualify as using a weapon to attack with depending on when the spell checks to see if you are using a weapon to attack with. Which is INDEPENDENT of the check to see if you have the material component. Hahah.

But frankly, Rule of Cool takes priority on this (for me).
 

Warpiglet-7

Adventurer
Actually, in the spell description, the weapon is specified as being a material component, not a focus. Which means that, as a material component without a listed value, it can be replaced by any spell focus that is valid for the class.

So, you could use the spell so long as you were wielding an improvised weapon in one hand and a spell focus in the other - or you could use your spell focus as an improvised weapon.
Well I am planning to play a cleric with a shield. Technically, I could have a holy symbol.

man that would be goofy. Run around with an improvised club, do a booming blade, knock them back 5ft or prone. Absurd!
 

MarkB

Legend
Well I am planning to play a cleric with a shield. Technically, I could have a holy symbol.

man that would be goofy. Run around with an improvised club, do a booming blade, knock them back 5ft or prone. Absurd!
Nevermind the club, just hit 'em with the shield and call yourself Captain America.

...I may have been re-watching a lot of the Marvel movies over the past few days.
 


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