A Scheme by any other name

[Remathilis]

As I see it, rogue schemes are specialized backgrounds: they grant a couple of skill bonuses (OL, F/RT, St) and a talent (thieves cant). I imagine others will follow suit.

It could be simpler to grant a rogue two backgrounds, and bar nonsensical combos (commoner/noble).

 

[Plane Sailing]

I can see good and bad in the idea of equivalent packages for other classes.

Good: It can allow for various additional archetypes to be easily handled within a particular class

Bad: If it excludes certain options by locking them into one scheme, I think that is a bad thing.

So, looking at the examples you chose

a) I think that warlord Pacts are a great example, because these MUST be mutually exclusive.
b) Personally I don't like the idea of schools of wizardry, but I know they are deeply embedded into the D&D tradition. IMO the best way of handling these would be to borrow liberally from the 4e essentials Mage class - none of the 'extra spell' band-aid used in the past, but giving them additional abilities when evoking, or enchanting etc. BUT, I can see this easily being handled within Themes, which have a built in way of adding extra themes.
c) I'm afraid I really don't like the idea of pigeonholing fighting styles behind fighters. If anything I'd rather see it as an armour style, so you could have duellist, armoured and things in between, but the fighters have free choice from day to day whether they want to go sword and board, two handed weapon or two weapons.

My gut feeling is that it would be good for Warlords, but not necessarily good for other classes. It will be interesting to see how they develop vis a vis Themes during the playtest period.

Cheers

 

[Plane Sailing]

It could be simpler to grant a rogue two backgrounds, and bar nonsensical combos (commoner/noble).

I dunno - he could be the prince and the pauper!

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Backgrounds could be from different categories and themes too.

A rogue may chose one scheme background and one of his choice. A fighter may take an armorstyle theme and one of his choice.

 

[Gold Roger]

As I see it, rogue schemes are specialized backgrounds: they grant a couple of skill bonuses (OL, F/RT, St) and a talent (thieves cant). I imagine others will follow suit.

It could be simpler to grant a rogue two backgrounds, and bar nonsensical combos (commoner/noble).

This.

I want to see background thief wizards and background charlatan bards.

I want knight/noble and magic-user/healer rogues.

I'd even like the commoner/noble who keeps everyone guessing wether he's a slumming noble or an extremely good imposter.

 

[Minigiant]

Nothing you're saying contradicts my idea.
Plus, how can anyone be a thief, if thief is a rogue scheme and not a background?

I think I read your post wrong.
There was a blog post from Robert Schwalb earlier on that mentioned a thief background. Actually 2 of them. Maybe 3.

Again, the two are not the same. Two themes is not the same as a theme and a specialised class-specific scheme.

Not only that, but the whole concept of two themes is just clunky and poor design. If they ended up being so lazy as to make that part of the core design of any class, that would be bordering on a deal-breaker for me.

In its current revealed form a scheme is some skills, a trait, and a feat. And And count Thief hiding as a feat is pussing it. So it is 3 skills and 2 traits. So ATM a scheme is just an extra background.

aAnyway, the purpose of schemes was to invoke the rogue's skill monkey roots. The rogue always had more skills that anyone else. That was its thing beside sneakattack/backstab.

Backgrounds were 5E's skill delivery system, an option any class may choose. But a major aspect of rogue was MOAR SKILLZ! So schemes grant MOAR SKILLS!

None of the Thief scheme evened mentions or intermingled with rogue stuff so it is possible rangers and monks might be able to snatch the thief scheme. And the Thief scheme might be a hard or soft copy of an existing background.

As for other classes, I think themes already take up the design space you imagine for "schemes" of other classes. There might be no need for a dual-wield scheme as there is a dual wield theme. There is an illusionist theme for those who wish to buff illusion magic.

Race describes who you are
Backgrounds describe where you came from
Class describes what you do
Theme describe how you do it

Schemes are just more where and hows.

 

[jadrax]

Yeah, I am assuming that Rogue Schemes are just a sub section of backgrounds, a bi like 'Fighter Feats' in 3rd.

Rogues can only choose a Background marked as a scheme for that slot, but anyone can take them as a background.