A simpler system

[DMScott]

I haven't seen any simplified d20-based set of rules that struck me as particularly good. Some of them are OK, but none are really outstanding. So I tend to look for non-d20 sets when I want a solid, simple set of core rules. BTRC once published (and possibly still do, no idea if they're still in business) a fairly generic game called "CORPS", which has a unified mechanic that's pretty innovative and simple to pick up, it's traditionally the set I use when I want to convert an older setting without using some custom rules set. Another good choice is the rules system used in HeroQuest, the recent Glorantha-based RPG - it's a narrative system, so it's not too hard to take the system out of HeroQuest and apply it to just about any genre.

My third choice for a simple rule system is MegaTraveller. People get hung up on the complexity of the ship and world design rules in MT, but the actual task system used to play out a session is extraordinarily simple and flexible. The CODA system, used in Decipher's "Lord of the Rings" RPG isn't too far off from the MT task system, I've been thinking of using that as a basis to convert magic and monsters into MegaTraveller and run some kind of space fantasy epic.

Or for a whole bunch of ideas on simple games, try the 24 Hour RPG site. By their nature (games designed, written, and published in one 24-hour period) those games usually feature simple mechanics. Some of them are pretty innovative, others are, well, fun to read.

 

[philreed]

Or for a whole bunch of ideas on simple games, try the 24 Hour RPG site. By their nature (games designed, written, and published in one 24-hour period) those games usually feature simple mechanics. Some of them are pretty innovative, others are, well, fun to read.

I had a lot of fun writing my 24-hour game. And it's free so how can you go wrong?

 

[Akrasia]

Three suggestions:

(1.) Castles and Crusades (the system mentioned by Plane Sailing).

This is probably the best 'rules lite' system out there now for people who want a fast and fun "D&D" system. It draws heavily on OD&D and 1E AD&D for its 'feel' (character classes, spells, etc.), but employs the 'd20' mechanic for most task resolutions. It is very 'rules lite' in that it does not have any feats, attacks or opportunity, or skills -- though any of those game features can be ADDED without imbalancing the game. Indeed, the game is designed to encourage house rules and tinkering.

The system is being used by Gary Gygax to publish his original "Castle Greyhawk" (redubbed "Castle Zagyg") -- how much more 'old school' can you get?

Anyway, here is a brilliant review of the basic 'box set' version of the game:

http://www.rpg.net/reviews/archive/10/10797.phtml

The complete 'Players' Handbook' has just been released.

One big advantage of C&C is that it is relatively easy to use most D&D material (any edition) with it. That is, it is easy to 'convert' 1e, 2e, and 3e material to C&C -- almost no work at all!


(2.) Unisystem (the system mentioned by maddman75).

This is a great system. Unlike 3e, the mechanics of Unisystem fade into the background as you play, rather than continually being an annoying distraction. Also, Unisystem is the only non-class system that is 'fast and fun' to play (the contrast with GURPS is staggering). Also, if you like feats, it includes something very similar -- but without all the headache.

I am especially fond of the Angel and Buffy games. However, it is a step away from many 'D&D' tropes -- so be prepared. Still, the 'Dungeons and Zombies' supplement looks interesting.

(3.) HARP (the system regularly pimped by Rasyr on these boards and RPGnet).

A one-book system. Not exactly 'rules lite', but perhaps lite enough. I like this system -- but then I was a huge fan of MERP back in the day. There are plenty of free or inexpensive pdfs to download over at the ICE website, so it is certainly worth looking into.

Hope that helps!

 

[maddman75]

Too complex?! What the heck is simpler than a system that uses one die to resolve actions?

The core of D&D/d20 is very simple - dice + ability mod + skill/bab + other mod vs TN. Its all the stuff around it that eats your brain. Class and cross class skill points, full/standard/partial actions, Attacks of Opportunity, Five foot steps, feat trees, the hundreds of different spells and magic items, each of which is its own little rule. Some people would prefer to do without all these details and get on with the story.

D&D is many things, but simple is not one of them.

 

[jmucchiello]

I'm in the midst of creating a lighter d20 based system that ditches ability scores (for mods only), skills (for ability checks), hps (for status levels similar to M&M), and (of all things) levels. (Technically classes are so abstracted as to not really exist too, but they are still referenced.) The core combat system is incompatible with the standard d20 combat system but it is also one of the more easily replaced systems in the game. Basically, everything is a feat, a creature's effectiveness is equal to its number of feats. When you "level up" you get a feat. While I call them feats, they are a bit stronger in power than normal d20 feats. The magic system is also feat based with a DC system to cast a spell rather than spell slots.

Alignments are a plug-in that is easily added or removed. Since everything is a feat, if you have no alignments, then the Smite Evil feat is not available.

Stat blocks look like this:
Cleric of somedeity: +1, 0, +1, -1, +2, -1, 2 hits, divine spell level 1, turn undead, smite evil, divine spell level 2. Spells known: (a list). Equipment: (another list).
Orc: +2, +0, +1, -1, -1, -1, 2 hits, power attack. Equipment: Scale armor, great axe.

In its current state I think the whole system (written for an existing d20 fantasy player) will be about 32 pages. That could be padded out much more to help the potential new player understand the game. I plan to attempt a playtest with my players in the coming months. I just need to shore up the spell system and add a few more feats.

 

[maddman75]

Personally one of the things that would greatly simplify the system would be to collapse the skill list some, and drop the idea that skill X always goes off stat Y. Why do we have listen AND spot AND search? That's three skills you need to keep up if you want to be the 'notice stuff' guy. Why not a single Observation skill. For spotting and listening, it goes off Wisdom. For Searching, it goes off Int. Heck, if you were trying to find something by feeling with yoru fingertips maybe it would go off Dex. Add to that Balance, Tumble, Swim, and Climb into Acrobatics, Hide, Move Silently, and Sleight of Hand into Stealth, and so on. This would also get rid of synergy bonuses - pretty much anything that would grant synergy would be folded into the same skill.

Nix cross class skills as well, let people buy whatever they want. A fighter buying stealth stuff isn't going to overshadow the rogue, the rogue gets far too many skill points. The overhead is not worth the niche protection.

 

[Fiery James]

When I was younger, we'd often play Tunnels & Trolls with people that were new to the game, introducing the concepts of D&D without the need for total rules mastery.

T&T is a very rules-lite (and fun!) game, which was released just after D&D as a response to the rules-issues 30 years ago (the more things change... )

And, guess what, I'm thinking that you'll see a 30th Anniversary 7th Edition of Tunnels & Trolls out this summer. Just a hunch.

- James

 

[mmadsen]

Personally one of the things that would greatly simplify the system would be to collapse the skill list some, and drop the idea that skill X always goes off stat Y. Why do we have listen AND spot AND search? That's three skills you need to keep up if you want to be the 'notice stuff' guy. Why not a single Observation skill. For spotting and listening, it goes off Wisdom. For Searching, it goes off Int. Heck, if you were trying to find something by feeling with yoru fingertips maybe it would go off Dex. Add to that Balance, Tumble, Swim, and Climb into Acrobatics, Hide, Move Silently, and Sleight of Hand into Stealth, and so on.

It would certainly simpify the system to fold many skills into larger, more-inclusive skills:

Notice -- Listen, Spot, Search
Sneak -- Hide, Move Silently
[Scramble, Spring?] -- Balance, Jump, Tumble
Craft (Device) -- Craft (Traps), Disable Device
etc.

It would also simplify the system to make Melee Combat, Ranged Combat, and Saves all skills, but that would ripple through much of the system.

Nix cross class skills as well, let people buy whatever they want. A fighter buying stealth stuff isn't going to overshadow the rogue, the rogue gets far too many skill points. The overhead is not worth the niche protection.

Or keep cross-class skills, but don't make them cost twice as much; simply limit them to half as many ranks as class skills. That retains niche protection without hassle.

 

[Geron Raveneye]

That actually sounds like a damn good idea, collapsing the skills a little. It could look like this:

Perception - Listen, Search, Spot (and any other perceptive skill)
Knowledge (choose a field of knowledge, as usual)
Craft (choose one as usual)
Social Interaction - Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimidate, Sense Motive
Stealth - Hide, Move Silently

...or similar. Leave a default attribute modifier, but open the whole thing up to flexible attribute modifiers. Keep "class skill-packages" for 1 skill point per rank, and "cross-class skill-packages" for 2 skill points per rank, and leave the rank cap, too, to keep the changes to a minimum.

Will also eliminate a lot ot those "+2 to this and that skill" feats, and change a few others to affect a skill package instead of two sparate skills. And it would get rid of the damn synergy modifiers that nobody can keep track of.

 

[francisca]

Three suggestions:

(1.) Castles and Crusades (the system mentioned by Plane Sailing).


(2.) Unisystem (the system mentioned by maddman75).


(3.) HARP (the system regularly pimped by Rasyr on these boards and RPGnet).

All great systems, and great recommendations. I'd also add Pinnacle's Savage Worlds to the list.