A simpler system

[knifespeaks]

shurai, that post was GOLD

 

[francisca]

For a simpler game I am going to go with Blue Rose or Castles and Crusades for d20 based gaming, and for non I am looking into Unisystem and Savage Worlds. *downloading the test drive of SW now*

I like SW quite a bit. Too bad the interest in my gaming circles is too low. Same with HARP, would love to give it a whirl, but probably will never get a chance, except for maybe at GenCon.

And knifespeaks is right! shurai is my personal messiah for the next, oh I dunno, 20 or 30 minutes.

 

[shurai]

The Window is good

shurai, that post was GOLD

shurai is my personal messiah for the next, oh I dunno, 20 or 30 minutes.

I'll take a half hour of honorary sainthood. Glad you both liked it. : ]

Back on topic, if you're a hardcore minimalist gamer, The Window (http://www.mimgames.com/window/) is very simple and free to boot. It's been around for a few years (geez, like eight now? When did that happen?), so it's relatively mature.

-S

 

[philreed]

You might also want to try d6 System from West End Games.

www.westendgames.com

 

[Zappo]

Meh. Really, meh. Recently I've started playing an old Italian RPG named Lex Arcana (roman empire plus low magic). It is simple - for example, combat is an opposed check, damage is determined by margin, and the only options you have are fighting aggressively (winner gets +3), normally, or defensively (loser gets +3). You can dodge, but it's generally useless unless you are vastly more agile than good at fighting. That's about it.

Simple? Well, yes. Now, suppose you want to disarm someone or attack unarmed. Well, no. You can only kill, with weapons. Suppose you want to carry more than the standard amount of rations. Can't. Let's put combat aside and focus on roleplaying - want to make a character that is really good at crafting but not at healing? Can't. Want to make a character that knows everything about Rome's alleys but very little about the rest of the empire? Can't. And so on.

Obviously, the lack of rules for something doesn't really mean that you can't perform that action. It only means that the DM has to decide on the fly what rolls you should make to, say, grapple someone.

But, of course, the next time I grapple someone I expect to use the same rules. So it's better to write them down somewhere. Do this for one year, and you get D20.

What I'm saying is that D20 is just a simple system with its homework already done, for people who like their systems to reflect their characters in a somewhat accurate way.

 

[Psion]

Obviously, the lack of rules for something doesn't really mean that you can't perform that action. It only means that the DM has to decide on the fly what rolls you should make to, say, grapple someone.

But, of course, the next time I grapple someone I expect to use the same rules. So it's better to write them down somewhere. Do this for one year, and you get D20.

What I'm saying is that D20 is just a simple system with its homework already done, for people who like their systems to reflect their characters in a somewhat accurate way.

Zappo, your post is GOLD.

 

[Henry]

I think those of us who still think d20 is simple need to get a grip . . . a [monkey] grip.

*shrug* different strokes for different folks, I guess. I've SEEN hard systems, and d20 is nowhere near in the ballpark. (I've been re-reading the initiative rules of 1st edition AD&D recently, and realizing I've NEVER played using the real system ever. Everyone I ever played with used a different system. Now THAT is a convoluted system. And even worse were some of those head-busting systems that made the Hall of Fame, such as Spawn of Fashan, or Synnibarr!! Divide my height by my pectoral radius and multiply by WHAT to get my throwing range, again?!?! )

By the way, it's 2d6+level+CHA bonus, and a d20 check+CHA bonus to turn. But then, I'm a geek. Zappo I think had it right: Write out any system to be completely consistent, and it's going to start looking like the state of affairs with d20. The systems noted above, however, have it going for them that they are new, they are active in the player community, and there's enough internet interest to get some support for them.

 

[Zappo]

Yes, some systems are needlessly complex. No excuse for them.

 

[maddman75]

THere's a downside to that as well. Many players will turn only to a list of pre-defined powers or options if one exists, and won't try to 'think outside the box' very much at all. With a more free form game, where the 'homework isn't done', you simply describe what your character does and I'll come up with something. This requires more trust in the DM. If there's any DM vs Player going on the players are going to get screwed every time. Here's an example.

We're playing all flesh, as my six month DMing strike finally worked and my group consented to play something besides D&D. One of the PCs has a zombie on each arm grappling him. On his turn, I ask him what he's going to do. He asks what he can do. He's used to d20, where there's set grappling rules, feats, and maneavers. This game isn't like that, I just ask him what he wants to do. He wants to shove one zombie off him, and then bring his shotgun up and blast the other one in the leg once he has an arm free. We do some opposed rolls and its taken care of.

Now later will I use the exact same rolls to resolve a similar situation? Probably. I don't even remember exactly, but something like 'opposed Str+Brawl rolls'.

There's two different philosophies. One says its better to have a rule and not need it than to need a rule and not have it. For me, its better to need a rule and not have it and just make it up than to have a rule but need to look through a thousand pages of rules to find it.

 

[Henry]

There's a downside to that as well. Many players will turn only to a list of pre-defined powers or options if one exists, and won't try to 'think outside the box' very much at all. With a more free form game, where the 'homework isn't done', you simply describe what your character does and I'll come up with something.

I get where you're coming from - we play Feng Shui on occassion, and it's built from the ground up to be low-maintenance and fluid. It actually uses negative reinforcement to think outside the box, because the more unimaginative your ideas are, the less likely they are to work.