D&D 4E A simulationist DM has a few reluctant questions about 4E

[Roman]

Nope.



Well ... they're kind of treated like explicit per-encounter powers, but they aren't really. In actual fact, they're "Need 5 minutes to rest and recuperate before you can use them again" powers. So, if you're fighting an extended series of encounters with little or no opportunity to rest between them (constantly on the run, for example), then they cease being per-encounter. On the other hand, if you could somehow manage to take 5 minutes and sit in the corner relaxing in the middle of a melee, you could use your encounter powers again in the same fight.



Not that I've spotted.



Pretty much, yeah.

Thanks for the answers. From what you describe, the per encounter powers are actually implicit rather than explicit, so that is a positive thing for me.

 

[Roman]

Explicit would be: "You may use this power once per encounter."

Implicit, OTOH: "We've placed a limit on the use of this power which means that, functionally, you get to use it once per encounter."

Yes, that is precisely what I mean by those terms.

 

[SableWyvern]

Thanks for the answers. From what you describe, the per encounter powers are actually implicit rather than explicit, so that is a positive thing for me.

I was going to edit my last post to make it clear I wasn't trying to put words in your mouth, but it seems that I understood exactly what you were saying, so all's well.

Edit: As you just confirmed.

 

[vagabundo]

4) There are diseases, which are persistent and can get better or worse. There's no system for persistent injuries, but I can't really recall one in earlier editions, except that HP took time to recover. If you want such, you'll have to house rule it like normal. The disease system seems to offer a nice framework for that.

cured<>initial effect<>moderate effect<>serious effect<>final state

You make an endurance check, failure moves you to the right, success to the left. A competent healer can help you with this. Some diseases have permanent effects that persist, regardless of state, until you're cured. Such is a handy model for serious injury as well.

cured<>leg broken, speed -2<>leg infected, speed -3<>leg gangrenous, speed -5<>crippled, cannot move

Hmmm just occurred to me that if you wanted a long term wound system it would be best to make it a disease. hmmm...

 

[Aegir]

The disease system IMO is one of the hidden gems of 4E: its a massive improvement over how they were handled in 3E, and was never really touched on at all during the teasers. I always avoided using them (and poison, for that matter) in 3E, but I can totally see using disease in 4E.

 

[Irda Ranger]

FYI, I'm a Sim too.

1) Is there a way to remain bad at a skill with advancing levels? I know that all skills (and ability bonuses, etc.) advance automatically at 1/2 point per level, so on the surface of it, I would have to assume that the answer is negative, but perhaps there is a flaw system, or some other system to enable characters to remain bad at given skill(s).

No, but the non-adventuring skills (Craft, Profession, Perform) have been removed, so all that's left is the stuff I would expect an adventurer to get better at throughout his career.

2) Is it true that most of the problematic but interesting spells and effects are gone (a select few being converted to rituals) or modified beyond recognition as seemed to be the case from the previews? (e.g. Baleful Polymorph)

Yes and No. There are plenty of Rituals, and they're cool. They make Simulating a campaign world that actually looks like Forgotten Realms, Middle Earth, etc. easier than 3.5 did.

3) Are the per-encounter powers explicit per-encounter powers, or implicit per-encounter powers?

Not sure what you mean. You need a five minute rest to use them again, which is "explicit", but there's no attempt to explicitly define what an encounter is.

4) Since hit points are now even more abstract than before, is there a system for more persistent injuries (that only heal slowly or with the aid of magic)?

No, but it would be easy as sin to modularize one on. My buddy and I are experimenting with some.

5) Have most of the non-combat abilities of monsters, creatures and NPCs really been removed as previews seemed to indicate they would be?

Well, they can use Rituals or Skills and Skill Challenges, just like PCs, if you wanted them too. That's about all 4E has to impose on you in that department, which I'm thankful for. I've really found that less is more when it comes to non-combat rules.

Thank you for answering these questions for me. I suspect the answers will not be to my liking, but I want to make sure that the books actually fit the impressions I got from the previews.

You're welcome, but for what it's worth, I think you're bringing the wrong attitude to the table. I hate Narrative justification with an unbridled passion, but I've been able to make 95% of the 4E rules work for me. The only thing that I can't accept as-written are Minions, and the very simple solution of simply not using them is quite easy.

The fact is that 4E brings a lot of improvements to the table over 3.5E, so I wouldn't turn my nose up at those because a few of its aspects aren't to your taste. It's merely my opinion, but "Fixing" 4E easy and rewarding. At least think about it.

 

[WalterKovacs]

Now that 4E is out and some people have the books, I wonder if somebody could find the time to answer a couple of questions for me. I am a simulationist DM and have been mostly unimpressed by the previews of 4E, so it is rather unlikely I will actually convert to 4E. Nevertheless, I would appreciate if some things that appeared to be major 4E flaws in the previews, from my point of view, actually manifest themselves in the books themselves, or if the more detailed information in the books mitigates these faults.

1) Is there a way to remain bad at a skill with advancing levels? I know that all skills (and ability bonuses, etc.) advance automatically at 1/2 point per level, so on the surface of it, I would have to assume that the answer is negative, but perhaps there is a flaw system, or some other system to enable characters to remain bad at given skill(s).

Most skill DCs are going to scale as you level as well. Skill challenges and such. For the most part, being untrained in a skill, having a bad stat in the skill, having an armor check penalty ... will mean you remain relatively bad at the skill ... at best you are helping out a party member that is good at it ... which after having spent a lot of levels with them, you might be able to figure out. [The magic-ignorant fighter, now at level 13, can at least know what the wizard is taking about when he asks him to pass certain things to him during a ritual that they've had to do a number of times over their adventures].

Static DCs will become easy for even the least skilled of adventurers, but the majority of skill checks get tougher over time ... so being bad at a skill means it's DIFFICULT to pull off at whatever level you are at, but it never gets to the point of being impossible. The person trained at it, with a good ability mod, and maybe Skill Focus can have
anywhere from 5 to 10 points more ... which is a 25-50% bonus. Needing an 8+ to succeed vs. a 15+ is still a big deal.

And, there are SOME skill uses that cannot be done untrained.

2) Is it true that most of the problematic but interesting spells and effects are gone (a select few being converted to rituals) or modified beyond recognition as seemed to be the case from the previews? (e.g. Baleful Polymorph)

Certain spells that used to be "save or die" have become progression based. For example, with a Beholder, you aren't instantly turned to stone, you need to be hit by the eye beam. If so, you have a condition that is ended by a save ... failing that save worsens the condition. 3 consecutive failed saves would result in "death" [turned to stone for petrification, killed outright by the 'finger of death' effect ...]

Spells that had long casting times were made into rituals because that's what rituals are ... spells with a long casting time. Most "spells" are powers that take, at most, a standard action to perform.

3) Are the per-encounter powers explicit per-encounter powers, or implicit per-encounter powers?

Per encounter = recharges after 5 minutes of "rest". Certain encounter powers [most utilities] will have text that refers to their use outside of encounters. For example a fly spell can be sustained for 5 minutes [or the length of an encounter].

4) Since hit points are now even more abstract than before, is there a system for more persistent injuries (that only heal slowly or with the aid of magic)?

Healing is not just magical anymore ... not only are characters able to heal themselves via Second Wind, they also have a Warlord who is just as competent as a Cleric and can accomplish similar healing powers without the aid of magic.

Disease is one example of a "long term" damaging infect. You get an initial effect when first infected. Each night you have to make endurance checks to "fight it" [someone else can make heal checks to help improve your endurance check ... and there is a ritual to try to get rid of it faster]. As you get worse, you get more effects until the "final state". The disease ends with either being cured or the final state.

Example:

Blinding Sickness Level 9 Disease
Attack: +12 vs. Fort
Endurance check: DC 26+ - improve, DC 22 to 25 - maintain, DC 21 or lower - worsen

Cured || Initial Effect: Target loses one healing surge [does not come back until cured] || Target's vision blurred. Creatures beyond 10 squares have concealment || Final state: Target is blinded

So, you start at Initial Effect, you either go "up", "down" or maintain depending on the result of the checks. You 'end' when you reach cured or the final state. Once you reach the final state ONLY the Cure Disease Ritual can help you [i.e. when you 'end' you no longer make endurance checks.

5) Have most of the non-combat abilities of monsters, creatures and NPCs really been removed as previews seemed to indicate they would be?

Monster listings are meant for using monsters in combat. If monsters are to be used in non-combat situations, they would require fleshing out on your own.

There are rules for creating NPCs in the DMG.

 

[Tiberius]

Thanks for the answers. From what you describe, the per encounter powers are actually implicit rather than explicit, so that is a positive thing for me.

Oh, no. You're in for disappointment. They're very clearly explicit. They tend to follow the format of (in a purely fictional example):

Graceful Carnage Whirlwind (Dervish Attack 17)
Encounter * Melee
Hit: Nasty stuff goes here.
Miss: Less nasty stuff goes here.
Effect: Does something independent of whether you hit or not.

 

[Sashi]

For skills, you get 1/2 level to Skills, and the DC for a level-appropriate "easy" challenge assumes 50% success rate.

Meaning that as you level, if you put no effort into raising a skill, you'll constantly have a 50% chance of failing "easy" challenges.

The thing that will change, as you become a more powerful and competent adventurer, is what the definition of "easy" is.

Personally, I think this is great. I've never had a character with awful Balance who defined himself by "Uneven floors! My greatest weakness!!"

 

[keterys]

Oh, no. You're in for disappointment. They're very clearly explicit. They tend to follow the format of (in a purely fictional example):

I think a lot of people aren't clear on what the difference is between explicit and implicit in this context.

You don't magically get encounter abilities back every encounter, you have to rest for 5 minutes. By the poster's definition, this is implicit. It says encounter, but it could mean 2 encounters, or a day, or whatever. It just means 'has to rest several minutes before using again', which is very different from 'Okay, I flee from this battle for 2 rounds until I get the "Combat has ended" message and the enemy resets back to its position, then I charge back with all my encounters ready to go'