A thing about d20 D&D I didn't like, and still don't know why it was done...

[Nightfall]

Robed,

I think the hatred for Miko is kind of a universal thing. She's certainly not like any samurai, paladin/monk cleric I'd like to be around...

 

[Vraille Darkfang]

I've been running D&D since a year or two since 2nd ed came out.

I've been running D&D 3.X since before the Monster Manual came out.

The XP system of the 3.X system is just so much easier for me to work with.

The wonky XP tracks were just another number to keep track of.

Each class rose a different rate (Rogues shoot up to begin with) as a balancing mechanic.

THAT was one of the worse things about 2nd ed.

They used varying levels and abilites to try to create balance. Sure an Elf gets all this cool stuff, but at level 15 he stops & the human starts to be cool.

In other words...

For 75% of the games I played in the balancing factor would never come into play as we rarely ran high enough for it to matter. And, if we did, the demi-humans would get bored (as they got nothing) and we'd start over.

From a DM standpoint, the amount of time I spend figuring out challenges & adventures has dropped about 75%. I can concentrate more on the Adventure & less on the Mechanics of the challenges.

As for your scenario: (Everyone learns somthing from the encounter in a different way)

1. They ALL ALWAYS get the same level of learning from an encounter. The 20th level Fighter gets the same XP from slaying the Ogre the 1st level Mage gets, that the 3rd level rogue gets. There is no scaling based on previous experience. In 3rd, higher level characters not only need more & more XP to go up in level, facing threate beneath them offers a lower & lower reward.

Why should Uthgat the 20th level Fighter get 15 XP for killing his 3,000 Goblin as he got when he killed his first?

2. The (optional) individual XP awards sucked. Sucked much.

A. Fighters got Hit Dice Killed. They cleaned up.

B. Rogues got GP FOR TRESURE THEY KEPT FROM THE REST OF THE PARTY (read the fine print). Rogues got rewarded for stiffing it to the rest of the party. (I killed more than a few XP greedy party members).

C. Clerics & WIzards got Spell XP. As clerics did all the Healing, they got quite a bit of XP. As mages had a pretty limited spell access (esp at lower levels) they tended to get hosed.


I've ran 8-9 different systems over 2 decades. I've played in dozens more. I can say there are XP systems I like better then 3rd ed (I prefer Champions & White Wolf System).

I can say that I can't think of a System I detested more than the old D&D system.

 

[thedungeondelver]

I can say that I can't think of a System I detested more than the old D&D system.

I read this a lot. Why did any of you play D&D prior to d20, then? Why? I mean, I absolutely hate Rolemaster. Hate hate hate it. Got dragged through it a few times - enough to know I hate it. I don't play it. I won't play it. I didn't grind through it for umpteen years talking nonstop about how I hated it, though.

 

[Nightfall]

V,

I can. It was that damn secondary skills and non-weapon proficenices!

I didn't play rolemaster and I still thought the D&D XP leveling was damn wonky!

 

[Crothian]

I read this a lot. Why did any of you play D&D prior to d20, then? Why?

I don't hate D&D. But it was not until 1989, 9 years after I started to play, that I ever say another RPG game. So, it is just possible that people just never knew there were other games out there.

 

[thedungeondelver]

There's a significant difference between "a wizard who makes magic items" and an artificer.

For one thing, an artificer can make any magic item, if she's skilled enough.

A magic-user can make any magic item if he's skilled enough.

This is what I'm talking about. First Edition AD&D doesn't have support for a broad range of specific character concepts

So you say. But I've seen people play inside the character archetypes in OD&D, any of the flavors of Basic and AD&D and do it with enough individuality and flair that heaping a preponderence of rules on them wasn't called for. I've seen people with 10 STR 18 DEX characters play fighters because they wanted nimble Errol Flynn types and they pulled it off without needing a 'swashbuckler' class. Conversely I myself played an 18 STR 14 DEX thief - because I wanted a brawny-thewed Conanesque smash-and-grab man instead of the archetypical AD&D thief.

You see, from my perspective and preference, it's all how you play it. Not how the rules tell me I can - or can't - play it (or DM it).

Look...everyone...I appreciate some of the responses, but I've said all I'm going to on the subject, really.

 

[Crothian]

This is what I'm talking about. First Edition AD&D doesn't have support for a broad range of specific character concepts - of course, neither does Third Edition D&D, depending on what you consider "broad"

It almost sounds like you are saying concept equals mechanics? I think both games can do almost every concept. One of the big ways to do it change the name of a class to match the concept. Concept for me is more how the character is played and not the numbers on the character sheet.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

I read this a lot. Why did any of you play D&D prior to d20, then?

'Cause even bad D&D is far better than many of the other options out there for some of us.

(Not that I think there has ever been a bad version of D&D. There's good D&D, and then there's better D&D.)

 

[Nightfall]

*some how has doubts about hearing the last of any more comments today*

But in any case it's people's opinion that the XP system today has bugs. Me, I'm fine with it and so are others. We live, we dance, we post.

Well I post enough to finally take the top spot from Crothy...some day.

2209 sound okay to you Crothy?

Olgar,

Darn right!

 

[fusangite]

I have read all three pages of this thread and I guess I'm still missing the piece of information I expected to see by post #3: what would be gained by returning to the 1E experience system of different quantities of XP for different classes? In what way would the game improve as a result of this?

If someone would clue me in to that, I think I might be able to formulate a response.