A Thought on Repetitive Combat

[Psion]

This is why I like the UA take on action points -- if they players need access to a feat just once, to try something special, etc., they can do it.

Not that my players are that into using this particular angle, but it's a start and I do see it get some use.

 

[GlassJaw]

Try reading some Robert e. Howard's Conan stuff.

This is great advice for those that want to spice up their combat. My baddies don't just get hit, they take backhand slices to the shoulder, have their entrails spill out, and get their heads chopped off. Fun to be had by all.

 

[GlassJaw]

maybe superman is busy with loius lan - cant spell her name - don't really care too either. But I think this time the bank manager is a crazed idiot that got the job last wednesday, and this latest villain who thinks he is going to steal from him his bank, job, life and a possible freedom? No, I don't think so, so what else does he do, but disapear out back, put on something kinky, and go nuts at this villain with everything he has. no eyebeams, or mega punches, just specified hatred against villains (paladin gone nuts?) with flurry of blows (crossed with munk) or maybe he has the matilda effect, and suddenly becomes one of those psychers that can walk up walls, create big force weapons with concentration, and take on the villain with renewed courage?

Who knows - I think it is better for people to think - I don't want to be a necromancer cleric anyomre - I'd like to try a deepwood sniper. He sounds cool.

There's a sig in here somewhere.

 

[mmadsen]

In real combat, openings appear and disappear, more or less randomly, and those openings are for different styles of attack. Sometimes the guy's open for a trip, or for a shield rim to the jaw, or for a disarm -- but you can't plan for it, at least not perfectly.

In D&D, of course, your odds don't change from round to round, so you know what your best option is, and you take it every round. (The same is true of most RPGs.)

 

[Rel]

maybe superman is busy with loius lan - cant spell her name - don't really care too either. But I think this time the bank manager is a crazed idiot that got the job last wednesday, and this latest villain who thinks he is going to steal from him his bank, job, life and a possible freedom? No, I don't think so, so what else does he do, but disapear out back, put on something kinky, and go nuts at this villain with everything he has. no eyebeams, or mega punches, just specified hatred against villains (paladin gone nuts?) with flurry of blows (crossed with munk) or maybe he has the matilda effect, and suddenly becomes one of those psychers that can walk up walls, create big force weapons with concentration, and take on the villain with renewed courage?

Who knows - I think it is better for people to think - I don't want to be a necromancer cleric anyomre - I'd like to try a deepwood sniper. He sounds cool.

As the founding and only member of the ENWorld Temperance League, I'd just like to remind folks: DON'T DRINK AND POST!

Except when it is very funny like the above.

This has been a public service announcement.

 

[scadgrad]

Try reading some Robert e. Howard's Conan stuff.

Crom!
Sound advice indeed.

I'm w/ Glassjaw my guys don't just get hit, they suffer outrageous wounds that would make the brooding Cimmerian proud by Mitra. Anyone who's interested in dramatic, descriptive combat really owes it to themselves to read a bit of the master with maybe some Fritz Leiber and Moorcock thrown in for good measure.

The only problem in all of this is missile weapon hits against the PCs. A point that has been made on many occasions in the past.

 

[The_Gneech]

The only problem in all of this is missile weapon hits against the PCs. A point that has been made on many occasions in the past.

If they're wearing armor or carrying shields, that's where most of the missiles are lodged -- only the tips actually penetrated, causing lots of bloody pinpricks.

-The Gneech

 

[der_kluge]

maybe superman is busy with loius lan - cant spell her name - don't really care too either. But I think this time the bank manager is a crazed idiot that got the job last wednesday, and this latest villain who thinks he is going to steal from him his bank, job, life and a possible freedom? No, I don't think so, so what else does he do, but disapear out back, put on something kinky, and go nuts at this villain with everything he has. no eyebeams, or mega punches, just specified hatred against villains (paladin gone nuts?) with flurry of blows (crossed with munk) or maybe he has the matilda effect, and suddenly becomes one of those psychers that can walk up walls, create big force weapons with concentration, and take on the villain with renewed courage?

Who knows - I think it is better for people to think - I don't want to be a necromancer cleric anyomre - I'd like to try a deepwood sniper. He sounds cool.

like when aquaman called all those fish and told superwoman who had those silver bracelets that were used to stop blasts like the ones from green lanter (could she stop those) and a wizard with illusionist template who could create those effects could stop those who couldn't resist against them. I think not, so you could take a level of bard or ranger and maybe a level o fbarbariun and mix it up withsome fighter and paladin level sand seom prestige classes to maxumimize the benefits of said multi-classes beneefits. I hate wall-walking psychers, btw, so Im totally with u there.

peace

 

[RFisher]

The only time combat should be repetitive is when you've done everything you can to maximize the chances that the monsters are going to run out of hp before you do. If you haven't, then instead of just trading blows, you should be figuring out how to do so. If you can't figure a way to do so, you should run.

Once you have maximized your chance of winning, then combat should be repetitive, until the monster's IQ or preservation instinct kicks in.

Really, the only time combat should be repetitive is when both sides have deluded themselves into thinking they have a good chance of winning & somebody has to be proved wrong.

 

[Arrgh! Mark!]

I find coming up with a billion different ways to say what, in the end, still just means "your sword does X damage" to be tedious in itself (and you're still going to have to say "your sword does X damage," anyway.) I think evocative descriptions work best when used to highlight the most dramatic moments.



You might as well say "Avoid most film conventions," or "Avoid most literary conventions." Why single out anime? Every media has conventions that don't translate well to rpgs.



Huh? I'd say D&D is much better equipped to model, say, InuYasha than it is Seven Samurai.

I agree with that first statement, sort of. However, the question was on the nature of avoiding that; I simply provided some suggestions. Note how I said to avoid flowery prose.

Then, players tend to think twice about combat in my games - it makes the combat exciting because of two factors - rare and dangerous. I haven't a problem with repetitive combat.

Aso for avoiding most film conventions or literary conventions, you might note I actively encourage reading and watching films. Anime has it's own style, and like most art can be done well (My example is Cowboy Bebop) and be done badly. I'm sure we've all seen some pointless, suckful anime. Ninja Ressurection comes to mind. I haven't seen InuYasha, so I can't say as to it's style.

I single out Anime because of the original posters mention of it and the subsequent debate. I actively dislike using anime tropes because they promote an extremely illogical combat system (At least, the anime I am intending. You know the sort.) that values obscene manouvers and shouting "Super-Mega-Dragon Cut!" before certain slashes. This can be exciting; it however doesn't fit into the standard fantasy genre. Conan, while his combat sequences are bloody and huge is rarely screaming out "BEEF BONE ATTACK!" or some such.

My theory goes that combat is not made exciting through doing it "EXTREME!!!". It's by doing it well, taking in the complexity of realistic combat but also allowing for truly heroic things without valuing something outside of the individual more than the individual. Standard fantasy focuses more on the heroism of the individual, not respect for the ultimate sword-form or some other secret move.

The reason why I suggested the Kurosawa classics is that they have the asian tinge that most geeks go cross eyes and love so much and yet have "exciting" combat. Combat is fast and extremely brutal. Not slow with lots of thinking, eye twitching, and muscle bulging - happens every episode and is rarely very exciting in itself. (Note how excitement comes from discovery of secret move, or inter-character plot in most anime, even ones revolving around repetitive violence?)


However, were I running or playing in an Anime campaign I would be all too happy to have huge balls of sweat, leaping hundreds of feet in the air, throwing thousands of shuriken per second or pulling off some manover that makes a line of force come from my sword. I'm not an anime hater. I'm just recommending against attempting to use it's combat to allieviate the problem of repetition - Anime combat is (generally) always repetitious.