A Very Abstract Question (0 level spell vs. feat)

[Geoff Watson]

It depends on the spell.

Also, have a look at the Dragonmark feats in Eberron. They allow particular spells once or twice per day, with a feat chain allowing higher level spells.

Geoff.

 

[apieros]

There's a precedent for a feat giving the character three 0-level spells once per day each, so a feat that gave only one cantrip could give more uses per day and still be OK.

That's what I did in my game, and it was fine. 1 Cantrip/Orison 3 times a day isn't unbalancing.

 

[kolikeos]

it depends what spell is taken. if it was, say, create water, i would let him use it up to 6/day, but if it was detect magic, i don't think it should be more then 1-2/day. anyway, that depends on the kind of game you play, in my game detect magic can go a long way while create water will have little to no effect.

 

[Sejs]

Constantly/At will is right out?

Depends on the spell. Light at will, always centered on the caster - not that big a deal. Prestidigitation at will would get interesting. As would Detect Magic. Or Guidance. Or a number of others. All spells not being equal and all that.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Prestidigitation - pshaw. No game effects makes for a spell that I would currently allow any mage to use at will for free. And it's only restricted to mages for flavour.

Acid splash? Noone should get this unlimited times per day. touch attack ranged sneak attacks anyone?

Damage causing and healing spells should never be at will

 

[argo]

Offhand the only hangup I see is with the weaponlike spells (ray of frost) since you can add you sneak attack to those.

Otherwise 3 cantrips 1/day or 1 cantrip 3/day as a spellike ability should be ok. Mmmm... Prestidigation.

 

[Jeff Wilder]

Personally, I'd tie it to an attribute. I tend to like using Con or Cha for it. So something something like mage hand might be "1 plus Con mod per day," while dazze might be "1 plus Cha mod per day."

 

[Gez]

Look at gnome cantrips. That's the kind of things that feats can afford. The precendent mentionned by SKR & Mouse gives dancing lights, daze, and mage hand.

With that in mind, and assuming the feat has no prereqs, a feat that would give ray of frost 3/times a day would maybe be too much, but once or maybe twice could be okay. A permanent light effect could be okay (it has drawbacks as well), but a permanent prestidigitation wouldn't.

Of course, you could make a feat chain. First lets you cast two presti per day, the second raise the total to five, and the third lets you do it at will. For the price of three feats, it sounds reasonnable.

 

[Shallown]

I know a few Domains give you a feat as part of its special abilities like war grants weapon focus. There are a few domains that grant 0 level spells like read magic and detect magic at will. I think it would depend on the spell. Picture an unlimited cure minor wounds. One point a round isn't much but if you can do it all you want. Where as an at will Read magic is not that powerful.

You could design one feat that you chose your zero level spell from a list that includes # of uses per day. I do like the idea of basing it off a stat such as 1+ stat modifier. Makes it so a mage who has minor magical ability use it more than say a fighter probably would. Seems logical that way.

later

 

[ARandomGod]

Spelltouched feats seem to be similar to what I'm looking for, but not exactly.

The thought that brought on the thread was wondering if a character could take something like Detect Magic as a feat, and be able to use it at will...? Light is the other example that immediately came to mind.

But, even if you look at some of the more overt 0 level spells, I'm not sure that it would effect the game much to allow someone to produce Acid Orb or a Ray of Frost at will if they wanted to waste a feat on it.

More thoughts?

Well,
Guidance might be over the top.
Let's look... It takes a standard action, and says: The creature gets a +1 competence bonus on a single attack roll, saving throw, or skill check.

No, since it requires a standard action first I don't think it's TOO good. Although I can see it being pretty good for, say, a rogue. That's almost a guaranteed +1 to any open locks or disable device or search roll. But there are already feats that grant +2 to two of those at a time... So not too good, even unlimited times per day.

The level 0 cure spell, heal one point... THAT would need to be limited by times per day. Obviously.

Detect magic at will would be pretty powerful. But I've given that one to sorc's for free before, and it wasn't overpowered.

I don't think light would be overpowered at all. Unless, for some reason your campaign is going to be based around how many torches/sunrods the humans carry into a dungeon.

Ray of Frost and Acid Orb. You mentioned these and others have expressed some concern about unlimited access to them, so let's look objectively. What do they do.

1d3 points of elemental damage. They use a ray, so a ranged touch attack. They would provoke an attack of opportunity.

Fists do d3 damage (medium character). Melee attack. Rocks (not bullets, just rocks from the ground) do d3 damage for a medium character. Ranged, but not ranged touch.

Both those are physical damage, and free. I'd say this is closer to throwing rocks. So what are you getting for a feat that lets you do this unlimited times per day? Well, you would be getting range. 25 feet with no penalty, but not beyond 25 feat (unless you were a caster and this feat stacked....) Normally the range on throwing is 10 feet, so you get an additional 15 feet at no penalty. But normally you can also throw 30 feet or more if you need to. You'd get d3 damage, which is better than normal if you are weak or if you're average strength for a small character. If you've got even +1 to strength then it is less damage for anyone (small is d2, d2+1 IS better than d3).

You'd be changing the type of damage to elemental... either acid or cold. I don't see this as a big plus or minus.

You're also getting this damage as ranged touch attack, so you'd ignore most forms of armor. That's pretty good. Is it an entire feat worth of good though?

I personally don't think that it's too much for a feat. After all, it's a pretty weak attack. Sure, as mentioned above it strengthens the attack of some characters, but those characters are already making some pretty weak attacks.... I think that it would be a good feat for some, but for most it wouldn't be worth taking the feat for other than flavor.

And, a feat that many people wouldn't consider really worthwhile I couldn't consider overpowered.